Imagine you are a new Linux user with a Live disk/USB

[zxr250cc]

Hi all,

As mentioned elsewhere in here (Distro hopper) my usage of Linux has included many different flavors over the years. As such it has been interesting, sometimes, to see how install boot up programs work or look. In trial mode (Live disks/USB drives) it seems that most distributions these days go directly to a desktop after doing their automatic set up. The only input needed is to choose the drive at boot and let the system start itself.

This is good. A new user with zero experience might be confused by anything more.

A few distributions still ask language choice and other questions. The majority of Live ones seem to just get on with it and boot a desktop. As a potential user if you are being asked to make choices it might be confusing or worse. If several distributions are downloaded and most just run which one will you choose? By definition I believe we, as experienced users, are so used to the license script and other settings that we perhaps forget that it is possible to just let the software set up and run from the Live disk. If more users are desirable for the software why not make it as simple as possible to see what it looks like to possibly choose it? If I am looking at a license screen and have zero knowledge of the workings of the Live disk, will I agree and then try the software? What will it do next if I agree? Will it try to do something to the current software on my computer, if any, if I agree?

I submit it might increase usage of Mageia if the Live disk just runs to the desktop on screen phase of a trial. All needed questions can be asked later if the user chooses the Install Software button and then makes choices. This is only an opinion of someone hoping to increase usage.. YMMV

Cheers

[morgano]

Well, it have to ask language etc to suit most people...

If persistence is enabled it will not ask next boot.

If installing from Live to disk it will use the already chosen options (plus ask some natural install specific details)

[zxr250cc]

Hi all,

I have been using quite a few Live distros recently and have the following notes about set up and actions of the software:

Linux Mint 21, desktop shown, wifi works

BunsenLabs, welcome screen on desktop, wifi works

Bodhi Linux, desktop shown and wifi works

Q4OS, asks language, screen size for desktop and asks what network to connect to, wifi works

Open SUSE Leap, welcome screen on desktop, wifi works

Kubuntu, desktop shown, wifi works

KDE Neon, desktop shown, wifi works, the Best Looking KDE distro

Fedora, start or install question asked, desktop shown, wifi works, can't stand the look and function of it like a bad copy of CDE desktop from Solaris (Gnome 3)

Mageia 8, questions, license asks for agreement, then desktop shown, wifi works after selection

I have used others but these are the main ones used recently on Live disk or USB from current or previous downloads. The very huge selection of distros is confusing to a beginner I am sure as this is far more options than when I was first looking at Linux. Mageia is the only one asking about a license agreement.

It is nice to have a couple of laptops to run trial software on without caring if I erase and start over. Of these I have installed and used Linux Mint, KDE Neon, Mageia 8 and openSUSE Leap. The others were run live and not installed.

Using ThinkPad X1 Carbon dual i7 w/8GB RAM and ThinkPad W-530 quad core i7 w/16GB of RAM.

Cheers

[morgano]

So a question is why the others dont ask agreement.
That said i have forgot what it reads, but it is not as awful as is common for some proprietary software, or "social networks" that i wonder why people do accept...

[benmc]

wifi works

as one would hope.
#1. Mageia Live needs one extra step for wifi because sometimes you need a proprietary driver (I'm looking at you => Broadcom) to work and it cannot be enabled in the Live. it can be installed by the user, but because it requires the kernel to be rebooted for the driver to be active, it cannot be enabled. LAN is always the default.

#2.
Mageia Live installs the system *as is*, including all the changes (tweaks, additional software, text documents, display settings.... etc) the user has made while trialling the system, prior to the start of the install. I understand that only one other distro (not in your list) does this. for me, this is a big plus.

only recently have some in your list even tried to carry over the wifi credentials, meaning the user who has just installed would have needed to re-supply those credentials after the first boot.

its a swings and round-a-bouts thing

[morgano]

#1. Mageia Live needs one extra step for wifi because sometimes you need a proprietary driver (I'm looking at you => Broadcom) to work and it cannot be enabled in the Live. it can be installed by the user, but because it requires the kernel to be rebooted for the driver to be active, it cannot be enabled.

I suppose this works when using persistence.

[benmc]

Hi morgano,

last time I checked, the Live boot menu with persistence does not create a new grub boot menu, so I am unsure if the dkms module will be detected and install the correct driver. something to check out when I next have *that* laptop for .iso testing

[zxr250cc]

Hi all,

As I am using Think Pads almost all the time these days they all get set up fully in boot, usually. Intel chips for wifi. Yes, I had a Broadcom chip in one system in the past and it was a pain to fiddle with back then. Why bother to buy a machine that is a problem. Buy a clean used Think Pad and get on line with ease. Great support with TLP for power as well for Think Pads. (No, I don't work for or sell Think Pads but have used them for over twenty five years for business and personal use.) The W-530 has a dual video system with Intel and nvidia. I use the nvidia software to run that. I prefer open source but I am not allergic to specific hardware drivers that are provided in install by some Linux software, like Mint, for example.

I downloaded Ubuntu today and looked at it. Their version of Gnome desktop is a lot less irritating than what OpenSUSE and especially Fedora are doing with it. Very slick looking software, overall. If I had to use it in an office I could survive it. (I still prefer KDE but Cinnamon in Mint is also very nice.) Ubuntu was ready to install or run Live after only a choice of language and pressing a button to choose Live or install on the same pop up screen. Simple indeed. It went directly to being ready to partition the drive which is where I quit as I was only wanting Live use, not to actually install it. As they are over half the Linux market (they claim in their site) it might seem normal for folks to expect a similar experience from other distros if trying them out. just a thought. I might install that on one of the X1 units to see what it is like but don't plan to keep using it.

The very latest Plasma desktop is quite nice looking. I ran across that in KDE Neon based on Ubuntu underneath. That is similar to Kubuntu of course which has many of the same desktop images and features in it. As a first time user it would be tempting to use Neon as it looks so good and offers some unique features that I am making notes on and will comment on later. There are settings in various of these distros that make using a computer simpler that can be of help for Mageia users. Again, more on that later. I am making notes on those as they show up in usage.

My past career was based in consumer electronics and audio/video gear sales, marketing and new product development in US and Asia. Many companies get a 'not invented here' idea in their head and sometime overlook possible ways to more easily achieve a goal. I am not here to start arguments but to offer ideas and perhaps help move to larger usage for good software.

Cheers

[benmc]

So, when you test drive a Live, what do you do?
browse the web, play some youtube / netflix / etc, play some music files, write some documents, send and receive some emails? spend several hours tweaking the Desktop to *your* Ideal .


As I remarked earlier, Mageia Live allows you to really test the system, both hardware and software.
With the Live, those emails you sent and received (if using an e-mail client) are transferred to the installed system, your netflix credentials are as well, those documents you created and saved (maybe printed) also, your music player playlist, as is your web browsing history from the Live session. If you added some applications from on-line (say Stellarium), they also are transferred to the installed system. those several hours of tweaks get carried over too.

Effectively, you are just rebooting the system when you change from the Live, to the installed system.
It is one of the things that really sets Mageia apart.
Reviewers generally are unaware of this capability, = > https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/mageia-6.html
They are so used to installers which loses all that info. They are happy to re-spend several hours tweaking the Desktop to *their* Ideal .

The downside is it makes the installation a little more complicated for the user.

regards

[zxr250cc]

Hi all,

Yes, I am aware of how it works and have used it for extended periods of time in the past. I use the various files, look at included packages and programs, check emails and surf the web plus also update the Live software if updates are offered and see if that is done well or not. I dig into the various administrative functions offered as well and look to see if the choices are useful and make sense to be there. There is enough RAM in the systems in use to have all that in RAM without actually installing it, if wished. I don't do any social media usage except being in here or on a site related to an old car I have. I used the internet from '95 until '08 for personal and business purposes and ran a corporate web site for part of that time while also authoring users manuals for electronics for fifteen years or so. After that my web use was personal and business related purely with Linux except one computer matching an overseas system as a unit to work on Windows software problems if reported to me by an internet cafe I had built in Mindanao.

I can say with conviction that what I consider to be social media is of no interest to me at all; not interested in fame or attention on the web and deliberately stopped being visible on line after leaving a company in 2008 that I authored all web site material for and added news and updates as needed. I have a somewhat fast internet connection so it is not hard to download various types of Linux to see how they look and work. I like some of it and dislike others. Some of it like Fedora is what seems ugly to me to look at. Why use it? It functions strangely and is irritating to use. Mandriva until it went strange and then Mageia have been interesting to use and the KDE desktop has been the one most used by me since it started twenty years ago or so. If it is possible to help with improvements it is of interest to me. I used rpm based software the most in the past and have used deb based software as well for the last three or four years. I have no preference for either system as long as they work properly. In disliking Gnome 3 I would be in with the majority of the users groups with that idea, probably.

If all will look again at the heading of this conversation it is to try to entice new users. How? If it is easier to try and to use will they come? Can we offer a compelling solution to their perceived problems and need for software to use for home or office? Almost all the various distros mentioned were just boot and run until you see a desktop for the most part. I am suggesting that a novice user that is totally unfamiliar with any Linux will be not sure of the results from questions and choices before they see a full blown desktop. If they decide to install it then ask questions and show a license screen. We are all used to that but the majority of newer competitive distros are offering a full desktop to see before you make any choices. Eye appeal is what made me bring this topic up to begin with. It is not to offend or make fun of anything, just hoping to get more users for the software.

Cheers