Mageia 2 Beta 2 first impressions

[wobo]

so ..... has anyone face such a problem like that

Yes, and it has been reported many times, not with wireless-tools (AFAIR) but with other equally important packages. It is in the nature of the RPM dependency system. If you remove a package urpmi will declare all packages as orphans which have no dependencies with other packages. urpmi can not check if the "orphans" are needed for anything.
That's the reason why I never use 'urpme --auto-orphans' except when the list is very short and I know for sure that the "orphans" are not needed.

The issue has been discussed very often, everytime without any results. One of the issues is the different points of view: users are seeing this as a bug. Tech-people know that it is not a technical bug of urpmi or rpm or any other tool but a general problem of the system.

why kde the whole kde need telepathy for
i mean it's just a messenger

This is the same in Mandriva and Mageia - I recently asked the same question in the German Mandriva forum. Telepathy's dependencies are not restricted on KDE, if you want to de-install it it also wants to remove VLC ! It is one of the more annoying issues with the RPM dependency system. Telepathy has dependencies, these have other dependencies, these have other dependencies, etc. So in the end you may want to remove a small package and end up with your whole system gone.

The problem with telepathy is the bunch of telepathy packages. If it is only one package you can use 'rpm -e --nodeps' and hope that it does not break another application. But with telepathy it is not so easy.

[almusalimalmusalimah]

hello again

there are new prblem here

drakedm still cant see lightdm

and slimdm cant login to E17

[jaywalker]

i mean it's just a messenger

So shoot the messenger

[jaywalker]

and slimdm cant login to E17

A small problem has been identified which affects slim's ability to start LXDE and now, from your report, this can perhaps be extended to include E17.

Why not take a look at https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5051 and see if anything there is like your problem. Your comments might be useful if the problem is related.

Richard

[jaywalker]

I shouldn't jump to conclusions. I have just installed task-e17-minimal to see for myself. There seems to be a pre-configured list of window managers and it takes no account of what is actually installed. It was offering me KDE, Gnome, Xfce and a host of others I don't have.

Must see if I can find the list it is working from and find out what happens if I add E17.

[jaywalker]

OK, almusalimalmusalimah, that was easier than I had a right to expect. To get E17 to launch from SLiM you will need to change a line in your /etc/slim.conf file. You will need to be root to do this.

Find the "sessions" line near the bottom of this file and add "E17" to the list. I deleted the Gnome, KDE, etc. entries from mine so it now looks like this:

Code: Select all

# Available sessions (first one is the default).
# The current chosen session name is replaced in the login_cmd
# above, so your login command can handle different sessions.
# see the xinitrc.sample file shipped with slim sources
sessions            LXDE,E17,drak3d


So by default SLiM will launch the first one in the list. To pick another one just tap on the F1 key until you see the one you want, then log in.

Hope this works for you.

Richard

[almusalimalmusalimah]

why kde the whole kde need telepathy for
i mean it's just a messenger

=====

finally i manage to get rid from it

first .... i decided to remove it .... and you know this will break the whole of kde desktop

and then i reinstalled lib64kdecore5

then urpmi gave me some other Optional dependencies ..... so i choose vanilla-kde4-config from it

and use after that

Code: Select all

urpmi --no-suggest task-kde-minimal

to force urpmi to ignore installing telepathy

===============

oh yah ...... about your suggestion Mr.jaywalker

i will test it as soon as possible

[wobo]

finally i manage to get rid from it
first .... i decided to remove it .... and you know this will break the whole of kde desktop
and then i reinstalled lib64kdecore5
then urpmi gave me some other Optional dependencies ..... so i choose vanilla-kde4-config from it
and use after that

Code: Select all

urpmi --no-suggest task-kde-minimal

to force urpmi to ignore installing telepathy

And what about those other non-KDE applications that were removed when you uninstalled telepathy (example: vlc media player)? What about all the settings you made before for KDE? What I mean is: this sounds like a complete new installation just because you remove one minor application.

[almusalimalmusalimah]

And what about those other non-KDE applications that were removed when you uninstalled telepathy (example: vlc media player)? What about all the settings you made before for KDE? What I mean is: this sounds like a complete new installation just because you remove one minor application.

i know that will be like anew installation

but this step will prevent the HDD to be stuffed with unneeded programs

[doktor5000]

--auto-orphans is not meant for beginners, and one is supposed to always look through the list to see if there are packages that are still needed.
So no, not a bug, just wrong usage.

[almusalimalmusalimah]

--auto-orphans is not meant for beginners, and one is supposed to always look through the list to see if there are packages that are still needed.
So no, not a bug, just wrong usage.

no Mr.doktor5000 you are wrong

as what i can understand from this situation

as Mr.wobo said

It is in the nature of the RPM dependency system

so .... what will you say about the wireless-tools situation that i reported here about it

is it really a wrong usage ...... definitely not

there is definitely a bug in

It is in the nature of the RPM dependency system

and we need to fix it before the release

[wobo]

Well, this is another issue than what we've been talking about in the last few posts. And we all know that it is not for unexperienced users - although neither urpmi nor rpmdrake tell that to this unexperienced user. "You can safely remove..." does not say "... if you are an experienced user and you know what you are doing". Quite the contrary! "safely" tells all unexperienced users in one clear word that they can use this command because Mageia has made sure that there is no danger doing it. So, it is not a bug of rpm or urpmi or rpmdrake - it is a bug in the message about --auto-orphans. Something which has been written often enough.

But that's another issue, here we were talking about having to re-install half of the system after removing a minor application.

[jaywalker]

--auto-orphans is not meant for beginners,

I think I need a new definition of "beginner". No, strike that. I think I need a new definition for "--auto-orphans".

My difficulty is that as a comparative beginner (only been using Mandrake/Mandriva since about version 7.2) I was delighted when rpmdrake first advertised the presence of the auto-orphan functionality. Of course, as a beginner, I did not immediately recognise it as a tool only to be used by experts, so I used it. Mostly it just did what I wanted and expected of it. This merely reinforced my opinion that it was an excellent tool and just right for my needs. Then one day ...

Well, we all know now what damage --auto-orphans can do to a functioning system. Sometimes I wonder if the perversion of the meaning of "dependency" may have more to do with this problem than the simple actions of the auto-orphans function. Maybe one day I will know enough to understand.

[wobo]

I think I need a new definition of "beginner". No, strike that. I think I need a new definition for "--auto-orphans".

"orphans" in this context says in principle the same as in the general definition: the object has lost its parents or its original relation. In the context of packages it means that the package in question has lost all dependencies with other packages. Nothing more. The system is not able to check its relations to other parts of the system when there is no dependency defined in itself (REQUIRES) or in the requirement of the user or the functioning of the system The latter could be possibly solved, the former not.

As I wrote: the best solution for now is changing the related text "You can safely remove them" into something opposite like "You may remove them but it is not safe and should only be done by experts."

[jaywalker]

If you are saying that auto-orphans doesn't work because some packages which require the orphan have not registered this information then by all means, let us improve the instructions given to users (beginners, über-experts and everyone in between), but for heaven's sake let us also fix the packages which fail to record their requirements.

While we are at it, let us also resolve to fix those lazy requirements which result in the whole of [Gnome|KDE|Apache|large application suite of your choice] depending on one minor configuration file (that is not meant to be taken literally, but I am quite sure that I am not the only one to have been suckered into the dependency trap where there is no obvious human logic connecting the dependents).

[jkerr82508]

So, it is not a bug of rpm or urpmi or rpmdrake - it is a bug in the message about --auto-orphans. Something which has been written often enough.

According to Thierry it's been "fixed". Although I'm not sure what was fixed or how.

https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920#c19

Jim

[jaywalker]

According to Thierry it's been "fixed"

Somebody is telling porkies. If it was fixed last September (2011-09-17) then what are we all talking about today?

[jkerr82508]

So, it is not a bug of rpm or urpmi or rpmdrake - it is a bug in the message about --auto-orphans. Something which has been written often enough.

According to Thierry it's been "fixed". Although I'm not sure what was fixed or how.

https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920#c19

The "fix" is that rpmdrake no longer suggests running urpme --auto-orphans. It just lists the orphans and says "You may wish to remove them". The reference to urpme --auto-orphans only appears when using the CLI.

Jim

[wobo]

The "fix" is that rpmdrake no longer suggests running urpme --auto-orphans. It just lists the orphans and says "You may wish to remove them". The reference to urpme --auto-orphans only appears when using the CLI.

Sorry, I did not read that bug report lately. That is a solution which matches reality fine and I am totally content with it!

[doktor5000]

The problem is merely with the expectations from users about what --auto-orphans should do and what it does in reality. And that there is no real definition, either in the man page nor in the wiki. I wanted to do this, but seems some packagers think it is working exactly like it should, and noone was really interested, and i've personally no problem with --auto-orphans, so nothing happened regarding definition what it is supposed to do and some implementation and usage documentation.

Here's a link to one of the huge discussions about this: https://www.zarb.org/pipermail/mageia-d ... 11011.html

Some relevant posts: https://www.zarb.org/pipermail/mageia-d ... 11041.html
An alternative to --auto-orphans: https://www.zarb.org/pipermail/mageia-d ... 11045.html

[wobo]

I think the problem is gone by now. The problem was not a missing explanation in the wiki or whereever - something only technical interested users would read and not before the damage was done. I repeat: the word "safely" was the problem. Whatever the why or the what, if you see a message from Mageia that I can safely do something, I will do and (so I believe) most other unexperienced users as well. This is something I and others have been suggesting all the time.

The new message and the absence of the whole "recommendation" from rpmdrakeis solves the issue IMHO.

[almusalimalmusalimah]

what is going on kde

its really ....... hah what can i say

it cant change the icons theme .... unless you reboot the system

it cant turn off the kwin effects (( eye candy ))

and more of that kmix uses a (( built-in audio analog stereo )) instead the (( intel-HD driver )) like mageia 1 i mean kde 4.6

so whats going on

[doktor5000]

so whats going on

You're running cauldron, that's going on.

[cmj]

I installed Mageia 2 Beta 2 using boot-nonfree.iso i586 and choosing LXDE. Then i installed kdebase4. KDE works ok and fast. The problem i have is that when i try to install wine i get this:

To satisfy dependencies, the following package(s) also need to be installed:

- gimp-2.7.4-4.mga2.i586
- gimp-help-2-en-2.6.0-3.mga1.noarch
- libbabl0.1_0-0.1.6-1.mga2.i586
- libgegl0.1_0-0.1.8-1.mga2.i586
- libgimp2.0_0-2.7.4-4.mga2.i586
- libmpg123_0-1.13.5-1.mga2.i586
- libopenraw1-0.0.9-1.mga2.i586
- libwmf0.2_7-0.2.8.4-23.mga2.i586
- sane-frontends-1.0.14-11.mga1.i586
- wine-gecko-1.4-1.mga2.i586
- wine32-1.4-1.mga2.i586

Why i have to install gimp for wine to work?

Hi, new user here.I also wonder about this one. Why gimp when you whant wine..I know for sure that Gimp should not be a dep of wine. Anyway using the console with the command " urpmi --no-suggest wine" fix this and will not install gimp. But still Gimp as a dep is quite strange.

[ozky]

Yes you need to have gimp installed if you install wine,it's wine depencies.