[SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

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[SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby demilord » Jun 29th, '12, 17:03

I would love to see a tips and triks section, And post our experience with some tweaks, customizability, and problems we were facing and how we solve them.. Like certain hardware installation...
Last edited by demilord on Jun 30th, '12, 00:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tips & Tricks Section

Postby doktor5000 » Jun 29th, '12, 23:09

Maybe just look some threads further down? viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2772
;)
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Re: Tips & Tricks Section

Postby demilord » Jun 30th, '12, 00:19

Missed that one!!! thanks!
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby viking60 » Jul 1st, '12, 17:46

Why is this marked solved? (I cannot find any tips and Tricks section.)
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby isadora » Jul 1st, '12, 17:57

There still is no "Tips and Tricks" (or whatever name it is going to be)-section.
Waiting is for admin, i will give him a push. ;)
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby demilord » Jul 1st, '12, 18:04

viking60 wrote:Why is this marked solved? (I cannot find any tips and Tricks section.)

by doktor5000 » Jun 29th, '12, 23:09
Maybe just look some threads further down? viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2772


got me confused , blame him lol :lol:

Sorry I can change it but maybe it isnt needed :D press your thumbs!
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby Ken-Bergen » Jul 18th, '12, 02:24

isadora wrote:There still is no "Tips and Tricks" (or whatever name it is going to be)-section.
Waiting is for admin, i will give him a push. ;)
Two plus weeks later and still nothing.

So I take it that the solution is to do nothing? :shock:
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby wobo » Jul 18th, '12, 08:56

One of the results of the first meeting of the forum team is:
- doktor5000 will go through previous requests and posted issues in forums and forums-discuss ml and collect those on one wiki page, so they can be revisited/revalidated and prioritized
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby doktor5000 » Jul 18th, '12, 20:48

Sorry, unfortunately i'm quite short on spare time, otherwise i'd already have done that. Currently trying to go through the list of the overdue and outstanding requests in forums. But as it's a wiki, feel free to help with that. Put issues you'd like to get sorted on the list Newly added issues, should be investigated at the bottom of linked wiki page
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby viking60 » Jul 19th, '12, 23:49

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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby doktor5000 » Jul 21st, '12, 22:18

The information is good, but the way you did is only adds clutter and spreads information around. Will merge those two pages and request to delete the former one.
Please at least give me a heads-up if you do things like that to avoid duplicate work.
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby viking60 » Jul 22nd, '12, 16:28

Well if the information is good then why has it been altered in the moving process?
The status of not yet approved for request more than one year old is just ridiculous - It has almost been two years (Structural Bug!)
I do realize that I have been unfair towards the current Admin because the lack of ability to decide (Who the hell does decide these things and by what authority?) has obviously forced him to be passive.
To be solved by Admin (Maat beeing the only one?) is to the point because the admin is the only one who can solve it. That is why I put it like that.


There are always a few success factors that must be present if you want something done.
1 WHAT should specifically be done
2 WHO specifically shall do it! ("Someone" or "yet to be decided" is crap and = Nothing will be done)
3 By WHEN must it be done.

I provided two out of three and you removed one of them...

Removing this responsibility is just an attempt to pulverize it, and a way for the existing bureaucracy to protect itself.

What we need is a no wait pro activity rule:
Just do it!
If some council or majority or whatever does not like it, they can decide to decide that they want someone to look at what points should be removed - after they have appointed a priority group who will work very fast, so that the demolition group can remove the points with the lowest priority.....
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby doktor5000 » Jul 22nd, '12, 17:04

viking60 wrote:Well if the information is good then why has it been altered in the moving process?


Huh? I've just copy-pasted the contents of your wiki page into the existing one. Maat seems to have edited the table: https://wiki.mageia.org/mw-en/index.php ... oldid=9602 You can see via the history of that page: https://wiki.mageia.org/mw-en/index.php ... on=history

For the rest, just complaining does not help, it does not help to get the issues fixed earlier, and it does not help f.ex. to find a PHP hacker faster to help maat do the things which were requested, as he is quite busy with his dayjob. Surely it's not a nice situation and that some requests that were done in forums are open for more than a year. But just by requesting something you can't expect that this will get implemented. It needs to be discussed in what priority and if those requests can be satisfied. And please be patient as forums teams has just been newly formed.

Apart from that, accusing me or someone directly is not the proper way to get things done.
Also the last sentence on your page
Requests older than one year must be regarded as "Will not implement" by active ignoration, and demand an explanation according to the Code of Conduct

is quite accusing and not really nice, and also rather unconstructive. We have many other ehancement request in bugzilla for the distribution for example, and some of them didn't get implemented since the start due to missing ressources - this is the same with the forums. So be patient, and offer your help in implementation or organisation, everything else won't speed up/improve things.
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby maat » Jul 22nd, '12, 23:49

To complete the fair answer of the doktor:

It's been altered because it was not complete and because wiki contributor of this page chose to attribute responsabilities of satisfying these demands converting them into tasks as if there's been a common agreement on those points.

These demands have been recorded long ago but there are still things to do with higher priorities and (recently formalized) forum team has not yet decided about those lower-priority demands (Lack of resources sorry).

Let me give and example to explain:

I'm personnally not yet convinced by the need of this "spoiler" demand for example... In a cinema forum spoilers have a very important value because movies commenters can comment on the content of the movie hiding spoiling parts.

For a linux distribution spoilers hiding has only one advantage : limiting posts height so that the pain to scroll is limited to something acceptable for users. But [code] allows already to limit the height of an inclusion of log or inclusion of code... so adding something else to do more or less the same thing without real additive benefit is sothething that tends to make me think that there are higher priorities.

I could be wrong but i still consider at the moment this demand is more close to "wontdo" or "perhapslater" than close to "critical". That's just my point ov view and again i may be wront but till the team has discussed this point and decided about it, it will remain a demand... not a task.

That's exactly like bugzilla... there are any demands for packages and features and bugfixing... till a packager decides he will package the requested software or till the packagers team decide that a feature is important enough to ask someone to do it it will remain in undecided/new status.

And the more aggressive you will be with packagers the less eager to give you what you ask for they will be...

Keep in mind you're not a paying customer ;)
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby viking60 » Jul 23rd, '12, 00:09

doktor5000 wrote:
viking60 wrote:Well if the information is good then why has it been altered in the moving process?


Huh? I've just copy-pasted the contents of your wiki page into the existing one. Maat seems to have edited the table: https://wiki.mageia.org/mw-en/index.php ... oldid=9602 You can see via the history of that page: https://wiki.mageia.org/mw-en/index.php ... on=history
Sorry my mistake I was assuming that you did it

doktor5000 wrote:For the rest, just complaining does not help, it does not help to get the issues fixed earlier, and it does not help f.ex. to find a PHP hacker faster to help maat do the things which were requested, as he is quite busy with his dayjob. Surely it's not a nice situation and that some requests that were done in forums are open for more than a year. But just by requesting something you can't expect that this will get implemented. It needs to be discussed in what priority and if those requests can be satisfied. And please be patient as forums teams has just been newly formed.


You are joking right? I have been patient for a long time, the only two options are:
Be patient and nothing gets done
or
Be impatient and nothing gets done.
I have offered to fix the BBC-code within an hour if I get the admin rights, so I have not been passively requesting as you seem to suggest - not nice!Image

doktor5000 wrote:Apart from that, accusing me or someone directly is not the proper way to get things done.
Also the last sentence on your page
Requests older than one year must be regarded as "Will not implement" by active ignoration, and demand an explanation according to the Code of Conduct

is quite accusing and not really nice,.

Well ok maybe not nice but not that accusing either. I and other members, have made an effort and not only requested but also provided the BBC-code.
Then we get the "have patience treatment" for more than a year... What do you call that? And if that is how contributions are treated, how on earth do you expect to win anyone over for further contributions?

Regardless of this; the busy dayjob did not stop the admin from altering the Wiki - which is about the time it takes to implement a BBC-code....
I will add in all fairness though, that I cannot claim that the Admin is to blame - If he has been waiting for a decision for over a year I only feel sorry for him.

Edit:
My post crossed Maats so here are my comments Maat:

After one year you are not convinced about spoilers - This spot is for all the sarcasms I have suppressed - Still it is a reaction thank you !
Result: There will be no spoilers until I change status from contributing member to paying customer.= never.

On the positive side then you have nothing against the Tips and Tricks section so when will we have it?
You have noting against the opening link in new tab. When will you have the time?
Col - when?

Every time you spend your valuable time it seems to be to maintain the Staus Quo or waiting for something indefinite....
That can seem disrespectful towards the forum members that made the suggestions..
But I am cool 8-) - I will do what I did in January just wait for another six months. Image
I will also accept that this maybe is to much to handle for Mageia at the moment due to lack of people.
All statements seem to go in that direction - So maybe I have been to "not so nice".
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby marja » Jul 23rd, '12, 09:22

viking60 wrote:I have offered to fix the BBC-code within an hour if I get the admin rights


Admin rights aren't that easily given. You're not even a member of a Mageia team. To try to get some admin rights you'd have to start with becoming a member of the forum team. To maybe get full admin rights, you'd also have to start with trying to become a member of sysadmin team.

By becoming member of a team, being active in it and cooperating with the other team members, you show a special kind of dedication. Only having the needed knowledge is not enough, it is that dedication we need to see before anyone gets special rights.

viking60 wrote:Result: There will be no spoilers until I change status from contributing member to paying customer.= never.


You can't become a paying customer, we don't sell a Mageia PowerPack or anything like it. Even if we did and you did have the payed version of Mageia, that wouldn't be any guarantee that those spoilers would come. When someone has strong ideas about how trains should be made, the fact that he pays for his train ticket isn't any guarantee that his ideas will ever be implemented.

One thing I've learned in Mageia, is that often when someone spends time to improve something, others will think he made things worse. You and I might have a very different taste about smileys, for instance.

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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby wobo » Jul 23rd, '12, 10:35

viking60 wrote:Result: There will be no spoilers until I change status from contributing member to paying customer.= never.


Additionally to what marja explained (and to which I fully agree): you are not the only one knowing how to add such a BBCode - it is the overall structure which makes things more complicated than in a standalone forum. f.ex.: it took me a couple of minutes to integrate an additional BBCode into the phpBB3 forum of MandrivaUser.de. But this is a system where I have admin rights including access to the software on the server. Which is not the case for the admin here. So, providing the code lines (which seems to be what you call "I have pitched in") is not all that is needed.
BTW: Yoiu seem to forget also that for the rest of the people involved this spoiler request is not even backed by more than a handful of users, which puts it further down the list of priorities.

Besides: maat and others (like Oliver, marja, etc.) have been asking for contributors with php knowledge for a long time. If you A) know phpBB3 (as you claim) and if you B) are so eager to have such things installed I really wonder why you are only barking up trees instead of joining the team, pitch in to the workflow and do it yourself.

I understand though, that the situation is not as easy as with Mandriva where you could safely complain about this or that without running the risk of being asked to do anything yourself.
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby viking60 » Jul 23rd, '12, 17:46

This might very well be a structural bug. I agree with you there Wobo.
Until I see that someone actually is able to implement a BBC-code I am going to claim that I am the only one able to do it!
So go ahead and prove me wrong.
Image

It might have felt good to get that Mandriva story of your chest so why ruin a good story with the truth right?

I have been asked in the Mandriva forum and I have pinched in
http://wiki.mandriva.com/no/Urpmi
http://wiki.mandriva.com/no/Installer_o ... rogramvare
http://forum.mandriva.com/no/viewtopic. ... 6&t=133601
In the Norwegian section you can enjoy spoilers and col and Links in new tab - oh what a joy!
http://forum.mandriva.com/no/viewtopic. ... 1&t=133625

You see; I was actually able to accomplish something there (however modest the contribution). Here it always talk about joining some group with no clear concept of what to do next. Mainly because the groups do not have the rights to accomplish anything? (even if the people would be able to - I will admit it :D ).
Also I must admit that since this setup is so super special as you never fail to mention, that I would not know how to deal with it.
Obviously that does not only go for me ....

I got a "thx a lot there" and "you are not even member of a group" here.
Doktor 5000 does not have all the rights he should have to accomplish what he wants done and you did not have it .
You both have complained about it in the past - what has changed?

You know I am right :
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Archive:Foru ... ek_25_2011
wobo wrote:Looking at the list in the forum I can see no meaningful system there.


Regarding the spoiler that you are against - what harm would it do to you? You are not forced to use it. It would only add flexibility to the forum.
And more people have expressed their support for a spoiler than against, even if you repeat yourself it only counts as one vote :mrgreen:
But if we leave spoilers out of it - what about the link in new tab/window it really annoys me too?
Please do not give me the middle click work around speech - it still annoys me. AFAICT members are keeping away because of it.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=35&start=25#p21715

I think that makes it worth to have a look at the priorities....
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby wobo » Jul 23rd, '12, 19:46

viking60 wrote:This might very well be a structural bug. I agree with you there Wobo.
It is not a bug. When the forums were implemented the sysadmin in charge expected more localized forums here, so he started with a setup where all software maintenance is done centralized. Unfortunately this turned out as a hurdle instead of an advantage (my personal opinion).

So go ahead and prove me wrong.
LOL! Who are you to think that I should prove anything to you? If anything, this I don't need any more.

It might have felt good to get that Mandriva story of your chest so why ruin a good story with the truth right?
This sentence only proves that you have no clue what you are talking about. And it does not belong here anyway.

Here it always talk about joining some group with no clear concept of what to do next. Mainly because the groups do not have the rights to accomplish anything? (even if the people would be able to - I will admit it :D ).
Also I must admit that since this setup is so super special as you never fail to mention, that I would not know how to deal with it.
Obviously that does not only go for me ....


Well, you seem to have not understood that everything goes via groups here. If somebody comes in and offers his help as php contributor he will be welcomed by the forum team right away. Then it is a matter of activity and discussion where you get and how fast you get there. This is not always perfect, no doubt about it.
BTW: as explained at the beginning of this post this setup is not so super special - my repeated mentioning only results from people who seem to have forgotten about it each time they start complaining again.

wobo wrote:Looking at the list in the forum I can see no meaningful system there.
Don't take this out of context. This was about the groups and permissions. First: this is just my personal opinion which is not shared by everybody. Secondary: the forum team is about to get this done, they already started to clean out the list.

Regarding the spoiler that you are against - what harm would it do to you? You are not forced to use it. It would only add flexibility to the forum.
And more people have expressed their support for a spoiler than against, even if you repeat yourself it only counts as one vote :mrgreen:
But if we leave spoilers out of it - what about the link in new tab/window it really annoys me too?
Please do not give me the middle click work around speech - it still annoys me. AFAICT members are keeping away because of it.
[/quote] About the spoiler that's my personal opinion. I don't count the number of people against it, to me (and the people who have to do that) the relevant number is the number of people who request it. As for "Open links in a new tab" I am all in. This is one thing which also annoys me once or twice a year when I forgot to use the middle button. But keeping away just because of this... what a pathetic move. Perhaps they are not much interested in the contents and help of the forum but rather in its background color or whatever.

BTW: This is not taking us anywhere. I tried to explain some points where you obviouly have a lack of information. I'm afraid I can't do any more to help you.
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby doktor5000 » Jul 23rd, '12, 23:08

viking60 wrote:Doktor 5000 does not have all the rights he should have to accomplish what he wants done and you did not have it .
You both have complained about it in the past - what has changed?


Well, i've been added to the Mageia Helpers group, can do some moderation tasks in Basic and Advanced support subforums,
later on i became the leader/manager of this group, and i'm actively participating in newly formed forums team, which tries to improve on forum organisation and overall situation and to take on the outstanding issues and try to not redo some mistakes which were made in the past. And looking at all the major issues which happened and try to do some "leassons learned" from those. So you see, many things have changed, but it takes quite some continuous contribution and active participation for that to happen, nothing changes out of the blue or just by shouting loud enough.

Asking frankly, what have you done besides requesting some features and complaining so far? Don't get me wrong, this is also needed partly, but what we need much more is active contribution. F.ex. have you informed yourself about the "special" forum setup at Mageia, information which is easily accessible f.ex. at https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Web_Forums_hacking and via GIT checkouts of the forum and puppet setups?
Did you propose some patches which can directly implement some requested feature in the current configuration? As you say you are perfectly able do to so, where are those?
Prove that you are able to, and with something like that at hands it's much easier to raise the priority of something like that and get it deployed in a short time, as then only a really small amount of sysadmin work is necessary for that.
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby viking60 » Jul 24th, '12, 22:31

Wow I am realy hitting on a German front here :D
I will take your profound (and plenty) words to me and accept your conclusions. You have noting to prove and if anybody wants anything done they can do it themselves.
All is good and the forum improvements can wait: Who am I to complain about the progress- it has only been 1,5 years.

Only I did offer to implement all BBC codes......I did make the wiki page that Doctor 5000 "should" have done....It was deleted hours later altered and integrated with another page.with altered content to make the reactive (as in not pro-active) people look better.

@wobo I am perfectly aware that you are not able to prove anything to me. The only one able to do it, is the Admin that you are so heavily criticizing.
So musste ich im Bugzilla anfragen, misc musste maat fragen, maat hat misc gesagt, dass er das template ändern muss und misc wiederum durfte mir das dann im Bugzilla übermitteln! Zeit von 3 Leuten verschwendet.

Aber anscheinend hat man (wer wohl?) Angst, ich könnte da Sachen verändern, die (wem?) nicht gefallen würden.

I for one think you have been to harsh there (and may I humbly add: pretty full of yourself?) - remember; he has no people to help him... :mrgreen:
Come on! Bring out the big guns (you must be able to do better than this) I have my helmet on....Image
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby maat » Jul 24th, '12, 22:51

The team is perhaps undersized for some mods and low level demands but we are not going to let people flame for the pleasure of getting people angry.

Remember all this is made of ones and zeroes... you'll live whether we add or not big mods or tiny tweaks on the forum. And I hope you'll live happy with plenty of hugs and kisses by the people you like/love :)

We are working on higher priorities tasks i cannot deny it (upgrade of the forum, improving organization... and some mods too... the next planned being the "solved button" mod) and some of your suggestions could be taken in account later.

But if your only goal is to bring war in the forum we'll find enough time to stop it. Of that you can be sure :)

@doktor5000 & wobo: please resist temptation that would only make things worse ;)
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby viking60 » Jul 24th, '12, 23:08

No need to threaten me maat. As I said: I am not prepared to go as far as Wobo in criticizing you.
I will shut up about:

Links open in new Window
Spoilers
Col
New Tips and Triks forum now

It is only Trolling - I know.....
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby doktor5000 » Jul 25th, '12, 00:40

viking60 wrote:Only I did offer to implement all BBC codes......I did make the wiki page that Doctor 5000 "should" have done....It was deleted hours later altered and integrated with another page.with altered content to make the reactive (as in not pro-active) people look better.


You're twisting stuff pretty badly there. I told you it's no good idea, to separate such an overview into it's own page, which had nearly the same name as the original page where it should have been, and told you that i'm going to merge it. And the most important points had already been added to the list, which is what i did before you whipped up that table of your own. And two of the points you have put up that list were requested by me, and don't even belong on that todo list.

Sorry, can't stand kindergarten stuff like that. Do as you wish, you just made it onto my ignore list.
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Re: [SOLVED] Tips & Tricks Section

Postby viking60 » Jul 25th, '12, 02:47

doktor5000 wrote:...... And two of the points you have put up that list were requested by me.

Your welcome Image
I am sure everyone who plan to contribute to the Wiki are impressed by your gratitude.
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