Mageia forum

by **Anakin** » Feb 7th, '12, 20:44

Can't find any.
No Wubi or BeenGrubed
Why?

I can't even find a thread about it.

Live cd isn't an alternativ if you wan't to try for a week or so

No wonder why Ubuntu is so big.

by **doktor5000** » Feb 7th, '12, 22:40

Why not do an installation onto an USB stick and use that during that week? Or just do a normal dual-boot installation?

For your question: WUBI, as the name says stands for Windows-based Ubuntu installer, which is available for Ubuntu.

by **wobo** » Feb 8th, '12, 02:42

I remember such a "install Linux in Windows" system from many years ago, can't remember which distribution it was (SuSE?). But it vanished very quickly, not being maintained nor improved by the distributor and net being asked for by the users. Now Ubuntu seems to have exhumed it.... I read about it once while testing Ubuntu installation options but that was the only place and time I read about it before this thread. I am sure it is not the reason for the popularity of Ubuntu

There are so many other options.

by **Anakin** » Feb 8th, '12, 13:27

Do we wan't people be curius about Mageia and be able to try easy?
Do we wan't Kububtu users moving to Mageia?
Do we wan't Windows migrators to try Mageia instead of Ubuntu?
Need Mageia more users?

If Yes is the answer of any of this. Why in hell isn't there some kind of Wubi for Mageia then?

I had Mandrake as my favourite distro since Mandrake 9
It is hard to se other distros rushing by to make it easy to try and no workshop at all in the Mandrake family tree.

Please guys.
Sit down with a Windows machine, download Wubi an install Kubuntu just for a try.
Even do i like Mageia i had to tell my friends with Windows to try Kubuntu or Ubuntu just because it's so easy to try.

I know that Wubi is not the best of ways to run Linux but on a lot of laptops it is the only way to get Linux on dualboot.

Now when Canonical dropping KDE it will be a lot of homeless users to grab.
We don't want then to fall back in Windows do we?

by **wobo** » Feb 8th, '12, 15:14

Anakin wrote:I know that Wubi is not the best of ways to run Linux but on a lot of laptops it is the only way to get Linux on dualboot.

He did not have a USB stick nor a USB slot on that laptop? If he has enough space to use wubi he also has enough space to do a dual-boot installation. For evaluation use a livecd or USB stick, this way your friend can work with Mageia without even touching his Windows installation.

As I wrote - I can not understand your point of view - I have never heard anybody ask for this kind of installation. Personally I think that it does not even make sense at all.

by **Anakin** » Feb 8th, '12, 16:20

Most modern laptops have strange partitions and if the laptop is delivered with W7/Vista and you play games sometime you don't want to risk your W7 installation and recovery partition.
"I don't want to risk my Windows for just trying a few weeks" is the most common excuse i hear.

Loads of people use Wubi for Ubuntu, Kubuntu and other xbuntu/Mint.

Even if You don't se a point in it it's one of the major sellingpoints for xbuntu.
Just look at newbe forums. All they talk about is how painless it is to use Ubuntu with Wubi without risking anything.

Demonstrate Linux with a live CD is one most painfull things you do after you have done it with Wubi
Just try it once. You will not die.
http://wubi.sourceforge.net/

I'm not a coder but how hard can it be to compile Wubi with Mageia as distro?

But if you are not intressed of getting newbes, ex Kubuntu users and Window migrators it's OK

Then i have to recomend Ubuntu now when Kubuntu have died to pepole that wan't to try.

And that's a pity because there is not that many KDE distros that is easy to use and have a great controll center.

Why is so many that is good on Linux so afraid to make things easy for newbes?
Are the Mageia comunity so pleased with under 0.1% market share?

My thught was that there was full activity to implement either Wubi or BeenGrubed because it's make it so damn easy to try Linux with speed and no trubble.
And i meet resistans and ignorance.
Shame.

But thats OK.
It's not the first disapoinment with usability in my Mandriva history.
Just to assign the left windows button to the start menu and the right to the turn of/reboot button in KDE's activity bar was to much to ask before Mageia was born.
Any short cut combination was fine but the windows button was a big NO NO and i get the same stubborn attitude when i asked how to do.

Where have all the old Mandrake folks gone that had a vision of doin the easyest to use desk top distro ever?
I'll realy miss them.
Thats why i started with Mandrake.

by **wobo** » Feb 8th, '12, 17:41

Anakin wrote:Most modern laptops have strange partitions and if the laptop is delivered with W7/Vista and you play games sometime you don't want to risk your W7 installation and recovery partition.
"I don't want to risk my Windows for just trying a few weeks" is the most common excuse i hear.

That's right and there is a fine solution for that: use a USB stick, it does not even ask for any additional software (like wubi) to be installed.

Demonstrate Linux with a live CD is one most painfull things you do after you have done it with Wubi

What's so painful in putting a cd into the drive and start the machine?

Then i have to recomend Ubuntu now when Kubuntu have died to pepole that wan't to try.

In which way do you assume Kubuntu has "died"? It hasn't. it is a pure community project now, the only difference is that Canonical has removed the employed developers from the project - to get nearer to the status as community project, as Ubuntu always claims to be.

Are the Mageia comunity so pleased with under 0.1% market share?

Where do you draw your opinion from that wubi is in any way related to making something easier for newbies (they even have to start and risk their Windows to use it!) and where do you draw your opinion from that anybody is asking for wubi (except you)? Search the Mandriva forums, the Mageia forums - there was never any demand, not even by users who migrated from *ubuntu. Don't you think you are blowing this out of proportions? Nobody resisted your request nor did I ignore your post. Instead the doktor 5000 and I gave you reasons why wubi is less easy for newbies than other existing options. This is a community forum filled with users of all levels of experience including first time Linux users - where are all those who crave for Wubi? I haven't found them on any forum, it's even hard to find in the Ubuntu forums.

Still, if you want it, fill a package request in Bugzilla. If any user and/or packager sees a demand for this or wants to support the request it will soon be available (if possible).

by **Anakin** » Feb 8th, '12, 18:29

"That's right and there is a fine solution for that: use a USB stick, it does not even ask for any additional software (like wubi) to be installed."
You realy think the common Windows user think it's easy to try when they have to make a bootable USB stick instead of klicking OK a few times?

"What's so painful in putting a cd into the drive and start the machine?"

You have never done that?
The computer aks if it was a 386 in speed.
Nothing to brag about how extreemly fast and smooth Linux is with a live CD

"Where do you draw your opinion from that wubi is in any way related to making something easier for newbies "
Stupid question

Everybody using Windows "know" it's complicated and every issue they meet when tying conforms that
Simple.

If Kinux wan't a bigger market share Linux have to meet the demands of simpicity.

by **wobo** » Feb 8th, '12, 18:53

Anakin wrote:"That's right and there is a fine solution for that: use a USB stick, it does not even ask for any additional software (like wubi) to be installed."
You realy think the common Windows user think it's easy to try when they have to make a bootable USB stick instead of klicking OK a few times?

Yes, it is written on the download page or at least a link says how to do it. There's no difference in reading how to use Wubi or to read how to transfer an ISO to a stick.

"What's so painful in putting a cd into the drive and start the machine?"
You have never done that?
The computer aks if it was a 386 in speed.
Nothing to brag about how extreemly fast and smooth Linux is with a live CD

You're kidding, right? I have used liveCDs more often than I could remember. It has been the main way to test a new distribution, the main way to test a laptop for Linux compatibility - until I switched to USB sticks and abandoned optical media where possible. Oh, which computer asks what architecture it is? I don't know any.

"Where do you draw your opinion from that wubi is in any way related to making something easier for newbies "
Stupid question
Everybody using Windows "know" it's complicated and every issue they meet when tying conforms that
Simple.

Yes I read that in this thread often enough. I just wonder why I did not read it somewhere else before relating to Wubi. If my question was stupid how come that none of the so called "Newbie distributions" advertizes Wubi (or a similar solution), even *buntu doesn't, I found it by chance reading the download page. So why not when it is such an essential tool as you say?

I suggest to end this now. As I already wrote, feel free to request a package in Bugzilla. Unlike Ubuntu Mageia is a community based distribution. So it is up to the users and the contributors what will be available and what not. With this "you must have Wubi" you have been addressing yourself, so do something to have it.

by **isadora** » Feb 8th, '12, 18:58

First, very welcome to the Mageia-forum Anakin!!!

Mostly newcomers introduce themselves is some kind of relaxed way.
Yours is some-way different, anyway you started off in big defence of WUBI.

But now i think, your point has been made. And i also think you have been
answered in informative and motivated way by two of our most helpful
community-members.

Follow wobo's advise and place a "new package request" in Bugzilla:
https://bugs.mageia.org/enter_bug.cgi?p ... mat=guided

And additional: please have a look at my signature, and enjoy Mageia!!!

by **Anakin** » Feb 8th, '12, 19:38

Never been that social guy
Never got the hang on it
Sorry for that.

No
Honestly
I have learned to say sorry for that and people seem to be happier.
It is that bad
You get it. I hope.

And i'm not that new comer.
I'll been around reading since Mandrake 9 but never regged.
I even have a full Mandriva server licens but i run Windows 7 on the desktop mostly because it's simpler to live that way.
It's a sad fact but gamers tend to do so.

But i think any non gamer could switch to Linux any day if it is simple enough to try and i do tell pepole with malware and other windows issues to at least try KDE for a week.
And if they think it's easy they usally stay with Linux.
So far i have promoted Kubuntu even thou i think Mageia is a much better newbe distro and the only reson for that is the simpicity with Wubi.

I'll try to " fill a package request in Bugzilla."
Greatful about that tip, realy am.
Why didn't you say so in the beginnig?

by **wobo** » Feb 9th, '12, 12:14

Anakin wrote:I'll try to " fill a package request in Bugzilla."
Greatful about that tip, realy am.
Why didn't you say so in the beginnig?

Because we are a forum where we try to help people not only to solve problems but also to avoid unnecessary work. We are not an RTFM forum where the non-experienced user only receives a link to a manual at best when he comes asking. So we took the freedom to discuss this request before we sent you work on that request. Mind that for a packages request in Bugzilla a simple "It is necessary and all the newbies will want it" is not sufficient.

How does such a request work?
- you give reasons for the request
- the triage team will assign it to the packager team
- people of the packager team will look at it
- now it depends: if a packager accepts the request he will start working on it - or somebody will ask why you want that package and then this same discussion starts all over - or nobody cares.

Of course you can simplify the process by packaging it yourself and offer it to the Mageia distribution.

by **tammerlane** » Feb 10th, '12, 12:52

I'd like to put in my 2 cents here. Wubi is a very popular feature in Ubuntu. I have used it before. It is also available for Ubuntu spins. I have used it with Linux Mint. I also agree with Anakin about simplicity and attracting more users. Windows users will not even consider anything requiring more than a couple of easy steps. So many times I read in these forums "You just open a terminal and dd ... ". Yea, maybe you guys love the cli, but the rest of us want a GUI. I used to use DOS and Basic, but since Windows 3.1 I haven't looked back. The current popular installation methods are not real popular with Windows users.
Linux users suggest a dual install with Windows using Grub. This is fine for Linux users, but Windows has a fine bootloader. Wubi makes sense to a Windows user. If you don't like the installation, you go to add remove and delete it. Many times I've made my Windows partition unbootable because some Linux distro wasn't ready for prime time. That sucks.
Most Windows users use what came on their machine, and they keep using it because its easy. If you Linux wizards made it easy to install and run your distro more Windows users might give it a try. Now I have second computer I use for Linux installs and I've been having a real hard time using Windows to prep a thumb drive with Mageia, so I can install it on my computer. I guess I could open a terminal and dd ... Or not. tammerlane. PS I really am looking forward to the upcoming release of Mageia 2.

by **jkerr82508** » Feb 10th, '12, 14:40

Installing Mageia (if one accepts the defaults) is no more difficult than installing Windows. (One could even say that it is easier, since a Mageia installation is entirely in GUI mode, whereas the first steps of a Windows installation are in text mode.)

But, most Windows users have never installed any operating system, since they will have purchased a computer with Windows pre-installed. They will, however, probably have installed application software.

Thus, they may feel more comfortable using something like wubi to install Linux rather than any of the traditional methods.

Jim

by **Anakin** » Feb 15th, '12, 17:10

"How does such a request work?
- you give reasons for the request
- the triage team will assign it to the packager team
- people of the packager team will look at it
- now it depends: if a packager accepts the request he will start working on it - or somebody will ask why you want that package and then this same discussion starts all over - or nobody cares."

I got one answer that i posted it wrong and i couldn't answer the mail of some reason. It just bounced back
I tryed to mail direktly to the guy who told me it was wrong to put in the right place but he told me to use something i forgotten now and i could not make sense of it.
So i don't know.

I was just trying to help Mageia get more users because i know it would make Mageia more attractive to Windows users..
I sertenly don't have time to lern Mageias buggreporting in detail and it is developt for developers by developers an as i said before. I'm not a developer. :-)

But it seems that i have waken up the subject and that's positive indeed.

I just don't understand why it are so hard to get a thing that make it esier to install Magei embrased.
Why so stubborn about make it easy for migrators?
How old are you hard headed? 96 years?
It's about the same stubbornes you se at an elderly home when somone try to introduse a new dish on the menu. :-)

Why i bother?
I used Mandriva for years now because it's the only distro i don't have to use cli all the time.
It is years ahead in usability compared to other distros and my tought was that Wubi was something the Mageia comunity have missed.
But now it looks that Mageia have been invaded by a lot of Gentoo/Slackware oldtimers that only use cli. ;-)

And btw.
Keep up the good work.
I realy looking forward to Mageia 2.
And i hope it will be so good it can be a serius alternernative for Windows 8

@jkerr82508 and tammerlane
It's so nice i got some positive respons :-)

Lets hope Mageia got a bunch a new Linux users when we see a Wubi for Mageia.
Mageia deservs a lot of users because it's a good distro.

Live long and prosper
10-4

by **isadora** » Feb 15th, '12, 17:16

Nevertheless you managed to place the request:
https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4445

Thanks for that.

by **wobo** » Feb 15th, '12, 17:22

Anakin wrote:I got one answer that i posted it wrong and i couldn't answer the mail of some reason. It just bounced back

I take it that you used bugzilla to post a request and then you received a mail follow-up.
This mail is sent by your friendly bugzilla system as information that somebody answered to your entry. What you have to do is go to the bugzilla system where you wrote your report (just click on the link in that mail) and give your answer there. You don't have to learn anything, just do what the people there tell you. If you don't understand, ask - they will see that you are a newbie and will respond in kind.

BTW: if you start a bugzilla request pls give the number of the report here so people in the forum can go there and follow the report.
(oj, isadora was fast)

by **wobo** » Feb 15th, '12, 17:29

Just looked at the report. You managed well, Manuel corrected the component (release/media) and gave his comments:
- for gubed he does not find a source code, so it is not likely to be packed for Mageia, besides the iso(s) are packed up with not enough space left for such a thing.
- for translations you can contact the project upstream (wubi or grubed)

So there's nothing for you to do at the moment. If some new comment comes in you will be notified with the same kind of mail.

by **Anakin** » Feb 15th, '12, 17:49

Nice of you to do that :-)

Send a thx to Manuel for me plz.

by **doktor5000** » Feb 15th, '12, 18:11

Anakin wrote:I was just trying to help Mageia get more users because i know it would make Mageia more attractive to Windows users..
I sertenly don't have time to lern Mageias buggreporting in detail and it is developt for developers by developers an as i said before. I'm not a developer.

I don't understand why most people always think that "developers" is some sort of different people.
Mostly these are enthusiast users, who are just interested enough in the distro or parts of it so they
stand up and do some work on their areas of expertise. There's nothing that magically seperates developers
from plain endusers. And bugzilla is made to report bugs/issues, anyone is free to report.
Also if you have questions about reporting a bug or you're unsure what to write you can just ask
here in the forums (or PM me directly) if someone could help you write the bug report.

Anakin wrote:I just don't understand why it are so hard to get a thing that make it esier to install Magei embrased.
Why so stubborn about make it easy for migrators?
How old are you hard headed? 96 years?
It's about the same stubbornes you se at an elderly home when somone try to introduse a new dish on the menu.

Please, keep it constructive and on topic, and realistic. We are short on manpower, so we're struggling with maintaining
the distribution as-is, so it's kinda hard to add all the new features (which in your case require much work all over the distribution
and also changes on the infrastructure) users want.

On the other hand it's also a question what sort of users (who are potential contributors, which every community project needs)
you want to attract. If you make it more and more easier to install and use the distribution, you will get more-and-more
novice-type users (no offense intended, just stating facts) who are more into just using the distribution, and don't contribute
that much. So basically it's more work, and less contribution resulting out of it, but more support, more package requests
and all that stuff. That's my personal opinion.

You always have to look at the distro as a whole and put it in context, not just one small part of it.
Another important thing is: If you request a new feature/package or something to be changed,
or anything the like from any open-source project, you always should ask yourself in parallel:
Who will do the work? That's the part which most people tend to overlook/forget.

by **wobo** » Feb 15th, '12, 18:28

Anakin wrote:Nice of you to do that
Send a thx to Manuel for me plz.

Why should I? With your report you showed that you can manage bugzilla. If you don't want to do the necessary communication I wonder how you would manage to support your request.
I only gave some explanation to help you along. If you don't want that, say so.

OffTopic and totally non-constructive nor helpful, but nevertheless quite amusing:

Anakin wrote:How old are you hard headed? 96 years?
It's about the same stubbornes you se at an elderly home when somone try to introduse a new dish on the menu.

Well, that's just the words I would expect from young Anakin before he started yedi training... see where it took him.
BTW: I'm 65, German and I only eat what I know (except when I'm in France). Do I qualify for "hard headed"?

by **truls** » Feb 16th, '12, 20:58

The idea of an easy to install and try Mageia solution is not bad. Some time ago there was a distro called "Presto" (http://www.prestomypc.com/)
One could download and install easy with few clicks in windows, and remove it from windows add/remove software. Don't know what "Presto" is based on, but I gave it a try at the time, and it was very speedy, I mean VERY.

I don't know if the goals of Mageia is to be the most used distro on earth, or if being top 10 at Distrowatch is ok, but it would have been nice for beginners, I mean really beginners, to try Mageia in an easy way.

My experience is the Mageia community is very friendly, and one can get help at the forum. Both I and my wife is using Mageia sine summer 2011, of course we were Mandriva users before that. We are both happy.

I am an accountant of profession, and sometimes my Linux skills are limited, but it would have been interesting in creating a beginner friendly, and I mean really beginner friendly, Mageia install. In a way my words is a contradiction, as Mageia is very beginner friendly and easy to install. The big point is most people are using windows, and needs an easy way to install Mageia from within this environment.

by **Anakin** » Feb 17th, '12, 19:57

If anyone that got a clue how to compile and check if it is anything more to do then add some extra lines with Mageia url in the ini file.

http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ins ... runk/files

by **doktor5000** » Feb 17th, '12, 21:02

doktor5000 wrote:We are short on manpower, so we're struggling with maintaining
the distribution as-is, so it's kinda hard to add all the new features (which in your case require much work all over the distribution
and also changes on the infrastructure) users want.

Compiling WUBI itself is the smallest obstacle ...

by **Anakin** » Feb 17th, '12, 23:31

And that is like climbing Mt Everest to me.
:-)

Sorry for disturbing you guys then.

With Windows 8 with Metro in the pipe i touhgt it was a clever idea to attract some migrators.

I'll gues it come when you got the time.
I'm aware of the lack of resources, mostly skilled people to work with the distribution and i know it's an uphill battle to keep deadlines.

I think you do a great job and I can imagine that it is not without significant efforts.
We <s>nuubs</s> end users thank you for that.

10-4 (Over and out)

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