Is it possible to replace systemd?

[catowner]

Just a quick question.

I would like to know if it is possible to replace systemd with another init system or to choose another init system when installing Mageia for first time?

[ozky]

No Mageia only support systemd we have no any other init systems right now available.
What's wrong with systemd that you wan't to replace it ?.

[catowner]

No Mageia only support systemd we have no any other init systems right now available.
What's wrong with systemd that you wan't to replace it ?.

It's like the Borg in Star Trek. It assimilates itself in to the whole OS.

[cheerfulcharlie]

If you want a Mandriva derived systemd free system, try PClinuxOS.

[ozky]

You mean what ? catowner wan't to get rid of systemd and pclinuxos use it ?.

[cheerfulcharlie]

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

A list of Linux distros without systemd if you really wanna stay away from systemd. And of course the Devuan beta is out now. PClinuxOS is also a systemd free distro.

[ozky]

That's sucks systemd is best what ever done in linux old sysvinit crap sucks more than......

[cheerfulcharlie]

Except when it doesn't work. For example, corrupt logs. In the old way, there were lots of log files, so it was hard to corrupt them all. Systemd logs can all be hosed at once. People are reporting problems sometimes when some device fails and systemd prevents booting. And on and on. Over the years, I used a Knoppix CD to repair borked systems, but with systemd, the old ways are not applicable. Systemd still needs some work, and its OK for casual users who will do a Microsoft style format and reinstall, but for those who want to rescue a system, it makes life harder. And then there are sometimes problems with systemd due to foolish distro setups. Why is my Mageia journald 8 gigabytes? Because of failure to set a reasonable journald quota. Yow!

[ozky]

You can easy way limit journal data size if you use your head and google.

Code: Select all

vim /etc/systemd/journald.conf

SystemMaxUse=50M

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/sy ... size_limit

[doktor5000]

You can easy way limit journal data size if you use your head and google.

That doesn't prevent log corruption though.

[ozky]

No it won't but it will make sure that log file is not 8gb.

[cheerfulcharlie]

You can easy way limit journal data size if you use your head and google.

Code: Select all

vim /etc/systemd/journald.conf

SystemMaxUse=50M

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/sy ... size_limit

Yes, but I didn't know that. This is my first systemd distro. Then one day I find something is wrong. I can't save anything! Journald logs have filled my partition! Why can't Mageia set a reasonable quota? It didn't take long to have a journald log bigger than my installed system. To an expert on systemd systems it's a minor problem. With my system jammed, it is a big problem. A Linux newb would be unhappy indeed. I unloaded a VM, freed things up and went on from there. That is learning the systemd ways the hard way. Unborking things took some time and it wasn't quality time in my humble estimation. The command line and df helped me figure it out, but again a newb would be in trouble. Someday, maybe the Mageia Control Center will help with configuirng systemd where useful.

[doktor5000]

Journald logs have filled my partition! Why can't Mageia set a reasonable quota?

Then please report that as a bug, after searching if it hasn't been reported yet already: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/How_to_report_a_bug_properly
For completeness's sake and also to allow others to follow up on that bug report, please also post the link to it here in the thread, thanks.

[aldQueiroz]

Is anyone still interested on replacing systemd? Very recently, I made it successfully! I've installed runit at my Mageia 5 desktop system, and it seems to be working fine, and booting faster!
The trick? I've found a runit rpm packge from OpenMandriva repositories; besides installer's warning for the wrong signature, the package is installed perfectly.
Just to be sure, and according to instructions in an older related topic, after runit install I ran these commands at terminal:

Code: Select all

# rpm -e --nodeps systemd
# rpm -e --nodeps systemd-units
# rpm -e --nodeps systemd-sysvinit
# rpm -e --nodeps lib64systemd-daemon0
# rpm -e --nodeps lib64systemd-id1280
# rpm -e --nodeps lib64systemd-journal0
# rpm -e --nodeps lib64systemd-login0

And the system returned that all those packages were already uninstalled (by installing runit rpm packge first, I guess...)
I did this 'experience' within a VM first , with a successful result. Then, have just replaced systemd for runit in my Mageia 5 desktop. The system seems to be working smoothly.

I fully understand that Mageia maintainers cannot support two different init systems, due to logistical constraints... However, to me systemd has being a pain... So, I decided to 'move away from it', but keeping Mageia! which is, still, the distro I like most!
I'm posting this having in mind to be a reference to others and to invite for a reasonable discussion about how Mageia can evolve further, in the best interest of its users!

Regards to all!

[plspls]

I think it doesn't work if you remove systemd

be careful

[aldQueiroz]

Of course! I did this experiment two days ago, and then everything seemed to be ok. Later I shall perform some tests, and post the results. I'm confident the system may work fine, even without systemd (or, at least, without systemd as init system!)
Regards!

[plspls]

does plasma work without systemd?

it doesn't work with systemd maybe it works without

[maat]

Hello aldQueiroz,

Is anyone still interested on replacing systemd? Very recently, I made it successfully! I've installed runit at my Mageia 5 desktop system, and it seems to be working fine, and booting faster!
The trick? I've found a runit rpm packge from OpenMandriva repositories; besides installer's warning for the wrong signature, the package is installed perfectly.
Just to be sure, and according to instructions in an older related topic, after runit install I ran these commands at terminal:

Code: Select all

# rpm -e --nodeps systemd
# rpm -e --nodeps systemd-units
# rpm -e --nodeps systemd-sysvinit
# rpm -e --nodeps lib64systemd-daemon0
# rpm -e --nodeps lib64systemd-id1280
# rpm -e --nodeps lib64systemd-journal0
# rpm -e --nodeps lib64systemd-login0

And the system returned that all those packages were already uninstalled (by installing runit rpm packge first, I guess...)
I did this 'experience' within a VM first , with a successful result. Then, have just replaced systemd for runit in my Mageia 5 desktop. The system seems to be working smoothly.

I fully understand that Mageia maintainers cannot support two different init systems, due to logistical constraints... However, to me systemd has being a pain... So, I decided to 'move away from it', but keeping Mageia! which is, still, the distro I like most!
I'm posting this having in mind to be a reference to others and to invite for a reasonable discussion about how Mageia can evolve further, in the best interest of its users!

Regards to all!

Hi,

I suggest you suscribe to the developpers mailing list here : https://ml.mageia.org/l/info/dev

Then post your proposal

I think you'll be welcomed... then if you're willing to maintain an alternative to systemd i guess this can be discussed

In all cases thanks for your proposal

[aldQueiroz]

Ok, maat. I'll run more intensively my own Mageia 5 dekstop testing its general performance with new runit as init system, to assure that such option is fully reliable; and post my results!
To be honest, I still miss the skills and free time to collaborate with Mageia development/maintenance. Nevertheless, may be I could learn how to do it!
Regards!

[zeebra]

No Mageia only support systemd we have no any other init systems right now available.
What's wrong with systemd that you wan't to replace it ?.

It's like the Borg in Star Trek. It assimilates itself in to the whole OS.

Its quite overbearing and quite a tyrant. If one part fails, everything fails. Its like Windows.

A solution is for some people to get together and make a functioning sysV init replacement package for Mageia, or perhaps OpenRC. I m considering trying to do it myself, for myself, but the job could become quite extensive, possibly. Not knowing exactly which components of Mageia which relies on which parts of systemd.

SystemD is nice when it works, but its hell when it does not work or any change is needed or any individual adjustments are necessary. Its quite horrible in many ways, but very handy in other ways. If you have a tower of 10 meters made up of individual 1cm³ cubes, dealing with systemD can be like trying to replace any of these cubes or several at the same time. Most likely it will be impossible without ruining the whole tower, especially for those cubes that are not on the surface.

SystemD

[shevy]

I think a natural tendency is that the longer systemd exists, the more and more software will
have a dependency on it for this or the other reason. Take Gnome for example - there are a
lot of packages that depend on systemd and do not offer a non-systemd way. A gentoo developer
explained this somewhere but I can't find the link right now.

[wintpe]

all components of operating systems are subject to bugs, but dont get caught up in the hype of
people who dont want systemd just because its new.
solaris has had an equivalent to systemd (SMF) since solaris 10 was released and yes it was a PITA when we first had to
recover a broken system.
but as time goes on, you move on.
unix was difficult the first time I encountered it.
Its not that I dont get what it is the anti systemd people dont like, I dont like network manager in a similar way.
but try and work with systemd, i think you will find that eventually, those init.d based distros will simply fade into
obscurity.

regards peter

[zilti]

more and more software will have a dependency on it for this or the other reason.

And that's exactly something that should not happen, because it's awful, crappy, shitty software design to have a hard dependency on an init system a system behemoth. Well, luckily there's now the Lumina desktop.

[wintpe]

hello Zilti
happy new year to you too.
last time you were here 2015 you were saying goodbye forever.
im sure trueOS/lumina has a forum of their own.

regards peter