new award in order for Mageia

Here wizards, magicians, sorcerers and everybody can rest a bit and talk about anything they like.

Just remember to respect the rules.

new award in order for Mageia

Postby oj » Apr 23rd, '15, 03:52

Congratulations must be in order for this newly established Mageia World Record.

For 187 days uninterrupted, a runaway process (firefox) has consumed a minimum average of 12% CPU with no window open in Mageia 4. This must certainly be a new highpoint of incompetence achieved by any Linux distribution!

This glorious achievement can be easily reproduced, and in fact would be dozens of times daily, without constant user intervention to identify and kill the runaway process. Success!!

This is observable across 1/2 dozen installations on as many different machines, so is reproducible enough to satisfy any award-granting authority.

Congratulations, Mageia! For breaking a web browser with such machine-like predictability as to surpass the precision of the atomic clock! (the poser)

(out of fairness I must say it really is little problem to pull up a process table, select "firefox" from the list, kill it, then tell the apologetic firefox to forget about it's "embarrassment" when it is called upon again and can't remember what the hell it was doing 3 seconds ago... really... it's no problem... windows users put up with this all the time... right??)
oj
 
Posts: 232
Joined: Aug 23rd, '12, 00:22

Re: new award in order for Mageia

Postby filip » Apr 23rd, '15, 13:05

Can you please provide any bug number?
filip
 
Posts: 474
Joined: May 4th, '11, 22:10
Location: Kranj, Slovenia

Re: new award in order for Mageia

Postby pete910 » Apr 23rd, '15, 18:33

I call PEBCAK.

Have MGA installed on 8 across different sites/places . Not seen/had this issue . This is running MGA2 through to 5 on all of the machines :roll:

So either I've been extremely lucky or .....
User avatar
pete910
 
Posts: 357
Joined: Jan 8th, '12, 18:53

Re: new award in order for Mageia

Postby jiml8 » Apr 24th, '15, 08:49

I have deployed Mageia on many different machines, including an assortment of VMs. I have sometimes observed plugin-container running away, but I have also observed this on other distros; I see no reason to believe it is a Mageia problem. Also, let me emphasize "sometimes". I usually observe this after a KDE session has been up for several days, firefox has been running for several days, and there are many firefox windows open. I don't see it often...certainly not repeatedly over the course of a day.

And a plugin that runs away for such a long time merely indicates a machine that is not being tended. Given that web browsers are not run on headless unattended servers, I suspect a classic ID-ten-T problem.
jiml8
 
Posts: 1253
Joined: Jul 7th, '13, 18:09

Re: new award in order for Mageia

Postby oj » Apr 24th, '15, 16:43

Nice, ad hominem as I'd expect elsewhere, but not here.

I don't see this on any other of the dozen or so distros I have running at various locations, with the exception of one fedora unit. I failed to mention these are all 32 bit installations on mostly identical hardware. My one Mageia 4 64 system does not do this.

I intentionally left one of these runaways going to see if the kernel would eventually recover it, but it lingered the aforementioned time before I installed a different distro on that particular unit.

Sorry folks, with 17 years of Linux experience I know what I'm looking at. Firefox and flash are simply a mess. They are a mess in their own right to be sure, but something about these 32 bit installations justs takes the cake. If I need to use flash I often have to kill the runaway process, (if I haven't already) open firefox then shut it down normally, then reopen firefox and go the the site needed. A mere annoyance, but one I've never seen so consistently. It's not an error, happening occasionally/randomly, it's SOP with these systems, the way this just works.

I've noted the "friendliness" this forum is famous for and will correct the record when it's disparaged in other forums.

Have a nice day. Hope it's warm where you're at. We're getting a late snow. Had to cover the gardens.

BTW is there a Guiness Book or similar record for how long a rogue blob of hijacked memory lingered in a Linux kernel? Unix is all about finding that stuff and reclaiming the memory and clock cycles. I find the ballet between user space and kernel space in trying to come up with a usable desktop a fascinating subject. All in all developers have done a great job with the necessary compromises, especially the Mageia team. (Mageia is my favorite distribution)

There's tons of new projects aiming to make a simple out-of-the-box user experience, and many do a great job of it. But something is lost in the end product. I think Mageia is closest to the original promise of Gnu/Linux in keeping (literally) everything available to the end user, that is not making a lot of "hard decisions" for the user up front, and limiting the user's ability to easily configure things more to their liking.

Other distros have their strong points, but using any Linux involves compromise, an unfortunate matter of hardware vendors knowing what side their bread is buttered on. But overall, I don't think you can find any better than Mageia for the closest to 'best of all worlds' any distribution has ever gotten.

I have here simply mentioned one particular compromise that happens to be rather high profile, given what these old beater 32 bit hardware machines are tasked with, which is web browsing and little else. Why use Mageia then? Because the only other distro that handled the wireless without days of fuss was fedora, and that was so heavy it bogged the things down to uselessness, no matter what I did. (using blackbox did bring them up to Mageia's KDE performance level...)

I've a mind to set up a system to sit running in a corner, keeping one of these escaped containers alive to see how long it'll go... sort of like having an electronic fish tank. I'll call it "Blobby." Surely with all the silly records in the Guiness Book something like this ought to qualify.
oj
 
Posts: 232
Joined: Aug 23rd, '12, 00:22

Re: new award in order for Mageia

Postby doktor5000 » Apr 24th, '15, 22:17

oj wrote:Congratulations must be in order for this newly established Mageia World Record.

For 187 days uninterrupted, a runaway process (firefox) has consumed a minimum average of 12% CPU with no window open in Mageia 4. This must certainly be a new highpoint of incompetence achieved by any Linux distribution!


oj wrote:Nice, ad hominem as I'd expect elsewhere, but not here.

This thread also seemed to me like a new high water mark for trolling in your OP. You were really close to receiving a temporary ban issued for one week.
Next time before you post please do consider the Mageia Code of Conduct: https://www.mageia.org/en/about/code-of-conduct/

oj wrote:Sorry folks, with 17 years of Linux experience I know what I'm looking at. Firefox and flash are simply a mess. They are a mess in their own right to be sure, but something about these 32 bit installations justs takes the cake. If I need to use flash I often have to kill the runaway process, (if I haven't already) open firefox then shut it down normally, then reopen firefox and go the the site needed. A mere annoyance, but one I've never seen so consistently. It's not an error, happening occasionally/randomly, it's SOP with these systems, the way this just works.

Yep flash is a mess, and the situation with firefox even more so with the old flash plugin - as it only receives security updates, no other fixes.
Do consider the alternatives listed in our MAQeia for flash player plugin: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=880

I can recommend either pepperflash + freshplayer plugin for firefox, or completely switch to chrome, as most extensions are available there too, and it can import firefox data - and it will automatically bring along the latest flash plugin.
chrome v42 brings along version 17,0,0,169 of flash player plugin (which you can also use in firefox, with freshplayerplugin as mentioned).
Cauldron is not for the faint of heart!
Caution: Hot, bubbling magic inside. May explode or cook your kittens!
----
Disclaimer: Beware of allergic reactions in answer to unconstructive complaint-type posts
User avatar
doktor5000
 
Posts: 17629
Joined: Jun 4th, '11, 10:10
Location: Leipzig, Germany

Re: new award in order for Mageia

Postby oj » Apr 25th, '15, 03:21

Sorry, and yes, chromium or chrome work when a threshold of frustration is reached, but are 100% undesirable in their respective iterations.

And yes also, though I would not use "troll," it'd be a two word homily that sort of rhymes with "troll" in the middle of it, if spoken aloud in certain American dialects in which the words run together.

It was written amidst a 7th or 8th reboot on another machine. Too much time on my hands. All apologies. Crass elements surround me.

Doesn't wipe the subject off the face of the earth though.

However, you may wipe this account and associated IP at will, Gridley. But you must enjoy! I shall go forth using your wonderful creation, (64 bit) any regard, especially as soon as I am able to obtain the hardware (64 bit) to do so without tribulation!.

And even Chrome begins chopping then locks up after 15 minutes of use, maximum. I'd estimate 5 minutes on average. This does not always happen, but requires hard reboot when it does. Happens greater than 50% of the time.

I still think there's a pet blob in here somewhere. Any attention is good attention, isn't it? My country hands out patents for vastly far less intellectual endeavors than this. It's soon to begin clubbing people about the knees and wrists over the issue. Where's the sense of humor around here??

32 bit. I did mention that, but definitely should have been in the "OP" as you people say.
oj
 
Posts: 232
Joined: Aug 23rd, '12, 00:22

Re: new award in order for Mageia

Postby doktor5000 » Apr 25th, '15, 09:51

Sorry can't help you much further on this topic. As you don't mention why chrome or chromium are "100% undesirable" - so be it for you.

Also as you do not mention any more details about what actual 32bit processors or maybe graphics drivers and such are used on the half dozen of your affected machines, also cannot help you further there.

If nobody else is able to reproduce this issue, you will probably have to debug this on your own more or less.
Cauldron is not for the faint of heart!
Caution: Hot, bubbling magic inside. May explode or cook your kittens!
----
Disclaimer: Beware of allergic reactions in answer to unconstructive complaint-type posts
User avatar
doktor5000
 
Posts: 17629
Joined: Jun 4th, '11, 10:10
Location: Leipzig, Germany

Re: new award in order for Mageia

Postby oj » Apr 25th, '15, 16:15

I wasn't asking for help. I would have posted in a general help column for that. Sorry for the confusion, I took "general discussions about Mageia" to mean just that.
oj
 
Posts: 232
Joined: Aug 23rd, '12, 00:22

Re: new award in order for Mageia

Postby doktor5000 » Apr 25th, '15, 17:39

So you have a problem that is 100% reproducable across your machines, and you don't want to solve or workaround it but you simply want to brag about it?
You know, that is exactly what trolling means ...
Cauldron is not for the faint of heart!
Caution: Hot, bubbling magic inside. May explode or cook your kittens!
----
Disclaimer: Beware of allergic reactions in answer to unconstructive complaint-type posts
User avatar
doktor5000
 
Posts: 17629
Joined: Jun 4th, '11, 10:10
Location: Leipzig, Germany

Re: new award in order for Mageia

Postby ozky » Apr 26th, '15, 13:54

Fanboy trolling our forum and wasting expensive time :x have we better things to do than this ???? oh yes now i remember need to release Mageia 5 to final :D .
Image
Mageia user
User avatar
ozky
 
Posts: 581
Joined: Jul 2nd, '11, 08:48
Location: Nakkila Finland

Re: new award in order for Mageia

Postby oj » Apr 26th, '15, 15:59

I forget English is not your primary language. If you understood English you would not call this "trolling" and you would have not ignored the half dozen apologies I have posted herein.

You people take things waaaay too seriously.
oj
 
Posts: 232
Joined: Aug 23rd, '12, 00:22

Re: new award in order for Mageia

Postby doktor5000 » Apr 26th, '15, 16:13

Seems you take it a bit too lightly. You report a problem that is reproducable, and people want to help you, but you don't want to be helped.
Cauldron is not for the faint of heart!
Caution: Hot, bubbling magic inside. May explode or cook your kittens!
----
Disclaimer: Beware of allergic reactions in answer to unconstructive complaint-type posts
User avatar
doktor5000
 
Posts: 17629
Joined: Jun 4th, '11, 10:10
Location: Leipzig, Germany

Re: new award in order for Mageia

Postby oj » Apr 27th, '15, 16:18

Seriously, sorry for wasting your time. But I would have posted in one of the 'help' forums if I thought there might be a fix for this.

A manager of a certain, nameless big box store gave me 11 identical machines that had no hope whatsoever of ever being sold. These things really are bad, 32 bit hardware (when was the last time anybody made a 32 bit-only laptop?) and they were "designed for" (of course) and came with vista. I set up some shut-ins and couple of people with developmental challenges with these things. They wouldn't have had a computer otherwise, and they've appreciated them far more than anyone who might have shelled out $$$ for them ever would have! (see the video of the guy that shot his computer? he'd have shot himself if he'd bought one of these...).

Once vista expired I looked for a Linux solution the users could handle. I tried Mageia first, as IMHO it's the best distribution out there. I was happy it handled the wireless, but there was this flash problem. So I tried a dozen or more others. But long story short we talked things over and they were happiest with the occasional ctrl+esc - select - kill maneuver, rather than using a different desktop environment or even a different distribution. (one young gentleman is rather fascinated with the process table, I'm encouraging him to poke around more)

If all I had for a computer was one of these things I'd be using blackbox, and maybe that on top of Manjaro. But, after all, I use Mageia on my primary system, and I tell them I think it's the best... and they don't want to settle for anything but the best... you can't argue with their logic. I can't, at least.

I just had a thought flash through my head that I thought was humorous and I posted it, but I should know by now few humans share my sense of humor. BTW "Blobby" lives, I set him off running yesterday (I kept one of these computers as a spare and for troubleshooting over the phone) and I have him on his own uninterruptible power supply. With luck he has every chance of outliving me. Imagine, I could some day harbor the the world's longest living, totally independent, unique entity residing in memory... it does seem like "artificial intelligence" to me. Who knows what's going on in there? Is it thinking? Evolving? Changing in any way? What does the kernel make of him? Does the kernel experience irritation? Is Blobby like an infection to the system? If so, by definition he is alive!

OK, enough.

So with further apologies, please don't waste any more of your very valuable time here. I've wasted enough and I do greatly appreciate all of your selfless efforts here. I'm sorry for pulling you off important tasks with my frivolity. Should I mark the original with something like "ignore this post?"
oj
 
Posts: 232
Joined: Aug 23rd, '12, 00:22

Re: new award in order for Mageia

Postby doktor5000 » Apr 27th, '15, 21:20

Nope, I've already moved it to the appropriate subforum where it doesn't matter.

As the processors in those machines are a bit older, you can also have a look at viewtopic.php?p=33099#p33099 if that helps.
Apart from that, did you check already all the hints in the MAQeia for flash that I've linked to?
Cauldron is not for the faint of heart!
Caution: Hot, bubbling magic inside. May explode or cook your kittens!
----
Disclaimer: Beware of allergic reactions in answer to unconstructive complaint-type posts
User avatar
doktor5000
 
Posts: 17629
Joined: Jun 4th, '11, 10:10
Location: Leipzig, Germany


Return to The Wizards Lair

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron