Mageia forum

OSAMA BIN LADEN DEAD...The end of an era!
http://www.cnn.com/

If this is not appropriate, please remove.

In the words of President Bush, "Mission Accomplished!

Taking this as example I want to make a request to the forum admins (and to all users as well):

We are an international community with people from all parts of the globe, with all kind of religions and also different mindsets and cultures. Discussing politics, ideologies and religion (as well as sexual preferences, etc.) will obviously lead to bad situations where either one party will be offended or a flame war starts - see the Mandriva international forum chat section as an example of what I want to avoid.

So I would like to request a strict rule to ban discussions about politics, religion, ideology, sexual preferences from this forum. That there is no room for racism here I regard as understood without discussion.
There are enough other forums with all various preferences out there for people who want to discuss such topics in whatever way they want to.

+ + + + + + + + +

wobo
+1

I also agree totally with wobo's post.

Jim

Agreed indeed.

In all cases discussions or linking to sites about the following topics should be very discouraged, and should be potentially terminated/removed without warning or subject to sanctions in case of recurrence:

religion
politics
commercial sites (except -- perhaps -- those related to Mageia if one day they exist ?)

Discussions or linking to sites about the following topics should be prohibited, and should be subject to immediate sanctions:

sex or pornography
dating sites
investments
fraudulent websites (phishing, scam, illegal...)
illegal websites or services
Harassing advertising (spam)

Also sending a message containing links to viruses, worms, trojans or other harmful software should also be prohibited and subject (at least) to the same kinds of sanctions.

Agreed.

rm /usr/bin/*

But agree on all comments in this matter.

Personally I don't agree with this.
I know that what is proposed here is not iron censorship but is not liberty either. I suppose is for the common good?

But the freedom to talk about anything with anyone is something that I still enjoy and treasure even now after 20 years of liberty.
I spend half of my life in a regime suffocated with rules, written and unwritten, and that's exactly what they told us all the time.
"Rules are for your own protection, for you to be safe"

I would prefer to let the common sense to make the rules. I'm aware that is dangerous and could lead to ugly confrontations, but hey...that's freedom and life.
I suppose that for someone born in a democracy doesn't make much sense ("rules are good") but for someone who experienced the opposite side....I've followed enough rules for the rest of my life thank you.

I don't expect to make a difference with my opinion, it is just...my opinion.

PS: In the spirit of the freedom of speech mentioned earlier let me say that I'm so satisfied that the demented terrorist and killer is dead at last.
After all, this is not about religion or politics, but is about a sick evil person.

Agreed, thx for the fast reaction!

maat wrote:commercial sites (except -- perhaps -- those related to Mageia if one day they exist ?)

Maybe also with the exception if a certain piece of hardware is the topic ("What SSD should I buy") where people write a link to a producer or store for recommendation.
Same for commercial Linux companies (example: Mandriva.com).

dubigrasu wrote:I know that what is proposed here is not iron censorship but is not liberty either.

That's focus.

But the freedom to talk about anything with anyone is something that I still enjoy and treasure even now after 20 years of liberty.

And that's great. There are tons of places, online and irl, for that.

It's not to prevent people from talking freely, it's to frame that this forum is not expected for stuff unrelated with the project - and there's already quite a lot of things that can revolve around Mageia.

And that's great. There are tons of places, online and irl, for that.

Oh, I get it...in other words: get the frak outta here.
Gee, thanks.

wobo wrote:Agreed, thx for the fast reaction!

maat wrote:commercial sites (except -- perhaps -- those related to Mageia if one day they exist ?)

Maybe also with the exception if a certain piece of hardware is the topic ("What SSD should I buy") where people write a link to a producer or store for recommendation.
Same for commercial Linux companies (example: Mandriva.com).

Perhaps it would be more appropriate to ban posts that are advertising a product or service, rather than providing information of general use. There are other circumstances in which links to "commercial" sites might be appropriate.

Although instinctively I share dubigrasu's dislike of restrictions on free speech - except when experience shows that such restrictions are necessary - the other proposed banned topics/links have nothing remotely to do with Mageia and so I'm relaxed about banning them. However, I do expect that the moderators will have an interesting time trying to agree on what constitutes "pornography".

I hope that when a draft of the complete rules is available it is published for discussion. It's much easier to get users to "buy in" to the rules if they feel that they have had an opportunity to contribute to their formulation.

Jim

dubigrasu wrote:Personally I don't agree with this.
PS: In the spirit of the freedom of speech mentioned earlier let me say that I'm so satisfied that the demented terrorist and killer is dead at last.
After all, this is not about religion or politics, but is about a sick evil person.

I agree also. It's not about religion or politics but an evil person, known world wide! If you noticed the binoculars Bush is using, it is to make fun also of the situation.

But if you want to remove the post, I have no problem with it either.

dubigrasu wrote:

And that's great. There are tons of places, online and irl, for that.

Oh, I get it...in other words: get the frak outta here.
Gee, thanks.

Yes, you are right, if you want to say "get the frak outta here if you want to talk about topics which have their place and time elsewhere and would only serve as base for misunderstandings and flame wars".
This is not censorship nor any other restriction of liberty. It is just a rule to give each its place. You would not start discussing command line parameters in a forum dedicated to politics, would you? Same here, just the other way round. I do a lot of political discussion and I would also have something to say about this Bin Laden - but not here. I also participate in a very lively forum about religion - but I would never discuss religion here. It is just not the right place for that.

get the frak outta here if you want to talk about topics which have their place and time elsewhere

Maybe then the definition of Wizard Layer should be changed somehow?

The Wizards Lair
Here wizards, magicians, sorcerers and everybody can rest a bit and talk about anything they like.

Because what I understand from this description is that I can talk about about anything...not Mageia, not Linux, but any topic that doesn't have its place and time in the rest of the forum.

Personally I'm not even remotely interested in talking religion or politics.
Still, I don't agree on strictly forbiding such topics, but rather monitor them, something along the line maat proposed.
As I said, they could lead to heavy exchange of words.

But you/we don't know that. Statistic may prove you right. Still, let's not assume the worse about people beforehand and let's give them a chance.
Based on statistic you already decided that they're guilty and some rules must be applied.
Whatever nice rounded clever words used for packaging and justify such rules you may found, it's still censorship.

You would not start discussing command line parameters in a forum dedicated to politics, would you?

Of course not, but I can bet my life that discussion about command line parameters are not forbidden in a politics forum.

dubigrasu wrote:

get the frak outta here if you want to talk about topics which have their place and time elsewhere

Maybe then the definition of Wizard Layer should be changed somehow?

Yes, it should be extended by those restrictions.

Still, I don't agree on strictly forbiding such topics, but rather monitor them, something along the line maat proposed.

Ok, so let's see what maat proposed:

maat wrote:In all cases discussions or linking to sites about the following topics should be very discouraged, and should be potentially terminated/removed without warning or subject to sanctions in case of recurrence:
religion
politics

How different is this to "are forbidden"? What maat wrote is exactly what I requested/proposed.

But you/we don't know that.

You have been in Mandriva forums long enough to know what I'm talking about. It would be unavoidable. This Bin Laden topic - if I would post my opinion on that I am very sure that those people who rejoiced and danced in the streets in front of the White House would want to kill me. So, I don't do that to keep the peace. Is this really "Freedom of speach"? No, it isn't for me, only for them. But if you want to achieve equal rights for everybody and at the same time avoid such potentially explosive discussions you have to shut out the whole topic. More so as it is not the main purpose of the forum.

Do you really want the same chaotic section here with lots of offensive posts and cultural misunderstangs?

Arghh, again that editing time limit...

I wanted to add something to my post in response to what wobo said:

You know wobo, there is this guy I know from a couple of Linux forums. I really like this guy and I respect him, he makes a lot of sense.
I found myself quite few times in disagreement with him but (or maybe because of that) I still have the utmost respect.
Anyway, let me quote something he said (hope he doesn't mind):

So, what would you prefer? Give the users some trust in advance...or give them the restriction without trust?

Can't agree more.

This is what maat said:

In all cases discussions or linking to sites about the following topics should be very discouraged, and should be potentially terminated/removed without warning or subject to sanctions in case of recurrence:

religion
politics

No word about strictly forbidden. At least that was my understanding.
Discouraging is something reasonably.
As in: "I'm watching this topic and I'm so close to remove it if you guys cross the line"
I agree with that.

Yes, you are right with that quote, but it was posted in a different context which is not quite the same as this one here.

Let's be straight, you know as well as I do (and everybody else who ever stumbled into such discussions at Mandriva "Community chat"). I remember discussions where you yourself had a hard time to make your point there. From those discussions we remember exactly what would happen if I started to ask real questions about the Bin Laden issue. Remember the discussions about the Iraq "war"? We don't have to assume these consequences, we've experienced them in the Mandriva forum.

I certainly see your point, I only have a different point of view on it. I do not regard these suggested rules as a restriction, rather a measure to make this forum a nice place where people can talk friendly to each other without bashing this or that opinion.

dubigrasu wrote:This is what maat said:

In all cases discussions or linking to sites about the following topics should be very discouraged, and should be potentially terminated/removed without warning or subject to sanctions in case of recurrence:

religion
politics

No word about strictly forbidden. At least that was my understanding.
Discouraging is something reasonably.
As in: "I'm watching this topic and I'm so close to remove it if you guys cross the line"

It says that such discussions are discouraged and will be terminated/removed without warning. Period.
Nothing about monitoring and lines to (not) be crossed.

See, this is not leading anywhere - you have very well stated your opinion, same as I did. Everything else is subject to decision or poll or whatever. We 2 are not the only ones with an opinion on that

It says that such discussions are discouraged and will be terminated/removed without warning. Period.
Nothing about monitoring and lines to (not) be crossed.

Yeah, but they key words were potentially and discourage which are not the same thing as strictly forbidden. But we're splitting hairs here.
The "monitoring" and "crossed line" were of course mine not maat's...just a way to make myself clear.

But you're right, enough talking.
Whatever is decided by poll or some internal decision, I will not argue with.
Just tried to sell my two cents.

(these icons are weird, this smile icon looks rather puzzled than smiling)

dubigrasu wrote:Just tried to sell my two cents.
(these icons are weird, this smile icon looks rather puzzled than smiling)

You're selling far too cheap, ask for 200 Euros next time!
(and you're absolutely right about the icon!)