My thoughts on Mageia

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My thoughts on Mageia

Postby drthrd » Jun 25th, '11, 22:08

Would like to say congrats and good work to the Mageia team. I like it. Install went fine.

On the network I had to configure it. That disappointed me a bit cause with Mandriva I didn't have to. For some reason on some distros I have to configure the network and others I do not. I do not have to with Mandriva and U/Kubuntu but with Fedora and others I do.

I was hoping that you choose what packages you wanted to install during the installation. This could go with what I just said but I was hoping you could choose KDE and Gnome for you desktop during installation or any other desktop Mageia provides. I was looking at the release notes at http://mageia.org/en/1/notes/ and was hoping that the applications that showed on that page would be installed by default like Google Chrome, Empathy, Thunderbird etc...

Like I said before congrats Mageia, good work.
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby wobo » Jun 25th, '11, 22:21

drthrd wrote:I was hoping that you choose what packages you wanted to install during the installation.

Of course you can. INstall from the installation DVD, choose "Custom" at the DE selection screen, then you get the group selection and you can also go to "Individual package selection".
If you did not get any selection screen then you have installed from one of the live CDs, where there is no selection, obviously.
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Customize packages/deskops during installation

Postby drthrd » Jun 25th, '11, 22:26

Would like to see a option to be able to customize what you wanted installed during installation.
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Re: Customize packages/deskops during installation

Postby wobo » Jun 25th, '11, 22:31

You already asked this in your other post: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=638
See the reply there.
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Re: Customize packages/deskops during installation

Postby isadora » Jun 25th, '11, 22:32

Welcome to the Mageia-forum drthrd!!!

For an answer to your suggestion, see the answer by wobo in your other topic:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=638#p4136

wobo was faster this time! :)
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Re: Customize packages/deskops during installation

Postby isadora » Jun 25th, '11, 22:35

And that means a merge into:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=638
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Re: Customize packages/deskops during installation

Postby isadora » Jun 25th, '11, 22:38

isadora wrote:Welcome to the Mageia-forum drthrd!!!

For an answer to your suggestion, see the answer by wobo in your other topic:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=638#p4136

wobo was faster this time! :)

Had to fill my glass, and change music and..........;-)
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Re: Customize packages/deskops during installation

Postby wobo » Jun 25th, '11, 22:41

isadora wrote:Had to fill my glass, and change music and..........;-)

All this has to wait, user's problems are top priority. I would not eat nor drink before I had not answered all open questions! :mrgreen:
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby isadora » Jun 25th, '11, 22:47

Prosit!!!!! ;-)
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby drthrd » Jun 26th, '11, 00:30

wobo wrote:
drthrd wrote:I was hoping that you choose what packages you wanted to install during the installation.

Of course you can. INstall from the installation DVD, choose "Custom" at the DE selection screen, then you get the group selection and you can also go to "Individual package selection".
If you did not get any selection screen then you have installed from one of the live CDs, where there is no selection, obviously.


Are you talking about this

http://www.linuxbsdos.com/wp-content/up ... 00x450.png

If so, I always choose KDE or Gnome and hit next. If that screen is what you are talking about then they need to redesign it so that everyone knows that is the place where you can customize your packages. That screen says nothing about customizing your packages
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby ahmad » Jun 26th, '11, 02:19

There's the "Custom" option in the screenshot you posted.
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby drthrd » Jun 26th, '11, 02:33

ahmad wrote:There's the "Custom" option in the screenshot you posted.


Yeah I see that but only people that know Mageia will know that means customize your packages. That says nothing about packages. It only talks about which desktop you want to use. It needs to be stated and be clarified that is where you customize your packages not just which desktop you want.
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby wobo » Jun 26th, '11, 05:43

Well, as a non-native English speaking person "Custom" means to me that I can "customize" something. This selection screen has been used and understood for years in Mandriva, so nobody thought there is a need to clarify something.
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby Lebarhon » Jun 26th, '11, 11:29

Does "Custom" mean choose other DEs than KDE and Gnome (LXDE, XFCE,...) or mean choose the packages (one by one) ?
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby wobo » Jun 26th, '11, 12:15

There are 3 ways:

1. Select KDE - you will not be asked any more questions, you get a standard KDE isntallation
2. Select Gnome - yoou will not be asked any more questions, youo get a standard Gnome installation
3. Select "Custom" - means, everything which comes hereafter depends on your choice, your "customization"
- package groups (including LXDE and others)
- individualpackage selection
- minimal installation (if you remove all marks in the package group selection)

So, the options here (KDE, Gnome, Custom) actually mean the further way of the installation, default systems for the first 2 options, customized system for the 3rd option.

Example: I'm a KDE user but I select "Custom" because the default KDE system is not what I want, I want a customized KDE.
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby drthrd » Jun 26th, '11, 17:16

Thank you Lebarhon you just showed people what I am talking about. It needs to be more clear for new people to Linux. Need to make it easier to find and see things. Wobo why not try to make Mageia even easier and better to use than Mandriva. Mageia is a new fork why not make it better.
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby wobo » Jun 26th, '11, 18:47

Lebarhon wrote:Does "Custom" mean choose other DEs than KDE and Gnome (LXDE, XFCE,...) or mean choose the packages (one by one) ?
Neither or both, any way you want to see it.

"KDE" means you get a default KDE system
"Gnome" means you get a default Gnome system
"Custom" means you want no default system, you want to customize it by selecting a DE, package groups, single packages (if you want to).
As I wrote, in this screen I use "Custom" because I do want a KDE system but not a default KDE system.

The default options "KDE" and "Gnome" are there to make it easy for new people who don't know about KDE or Gnome. So they get a default system to be ready to start right in, experiencing either DE. When they know a bit more they will definitely start to customize to their individual requirements.
"Custom" is there for the rest of us who want a customized system, no matter what DE.

drthrd wrote:Wobo why not try to make Mageia even easier and better to use than Mandriva. Mageia is a new fork why not make it better.

Yes, it's always a good thing to improve things that need improvement. I just don't understand the need for improvement here. So, best that you tell how you would improve this screen so that you understand what "Custom" means in this context?
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby Lebarhon » Jun 26th, '11, 19:06

Just another question, if I choose "Custom"; have I a "Previous" or "Back" button ? If so, even if "Custom" isn't clear, it doesn't matter because I can just have a look and go back, but many steps in the installation progress haven't such a button, so in this case, it must be very clear.
In the French version, "Custom" is translated by "Installation personnalisée" (Customized installation), I think it's clearer because it deals with Installation, not only DE.
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby wobo » Jun 26th, '11, 21:41

Lebarhon wrote:Just another question, if I choose "Custom"; have I a "Previous" or "Back" button ? If so, even if "Custom" isn't clear, it doesn't matter because I can just have a look and go back, but many steps in the installation progress haven't such a button, so in this case, it must be very clear.
No, I don't think that there is a back button there, but that's not really a problem because the next step is the package group selection. It is by default identical with the default KDE you can select in the previous screen. So, if you want the default KDE you can just hit "OK" and that's it, no back step needed. If you want to use Gnome you can erase the mark at the KDE group and mark the Gnome group - then "OK".

You see, it's already as easy as can be.

In the French version, "Custom" is translated by "Installation personnalisée" (Customized installation), I think it's clearer because it deals with Installation, not only DE.

Ok, so the French translator added the word "Installation" on his own to the translation. You think it would be clearer to you if there was "Custom installation" instead of "Custom"? OK, to me the word "installation" is obvious, because that's what you are doing when you see the screen.

Anyhow, we should not spend more time on this discussion, it's not helpful. If you think this should be changed, pls file a bug report of the installer and explain the case there, so the maintainer sees the request.
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby drthrd » Jul 7th, '11, 03:01

That screenshot says nothing about installing or changing any packages. Add somewhere that this step or this part of the installation is where you can choose what desktop you want and what packages you want installed or removed(software customization). Where you can customize your software selection. Only good example is for Fedora and SUSE. Fedora is the better example in my opinion.

Fedora

Image

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SUSE

Image

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Need to clean up and add descriptions for the packages. Make them look neater and easier to read. The only example I can give is the package selection in Fedora and SUSE. They give a description of what the package is. Here is what I am talking about.

Fedora

Image

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SUSE

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See how they show what the package is. Here is what Mageia shows

Image

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In SUSE you have all kind of choices in how you view the packages. You can even search for packages in SUSE. I think SUSE could make theirs easier to read also though. But they have the descriptions and all the different view options. To me Fedora has the best layout for package selection. When you click on Optional packages they could do something to make that easier to read, maybe space them out and put the description under the package but they have the easiest to read package system with descriptions.

Mageia needs to make it clear what stage of installation is for customizing what software you want installed or removed. Mageia needs to come up with their own layout that is easy to read and shows the descriptions of the packages. Maybe a combination of the good points I pointed out in the Fedora and SUSE package installation.
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby wobo » Jul 7th, '11, 04:17

As I wrote: Pls file a bugreport explaining what you want to be done. Without a bugreport the developpers may not get notice of what you want to be changed.
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby Ken-Bergen » Jul 7th, '11, 04:42

My memory misserves me but way back in early Mandriva or it could even be Mandrake when "individual package selection" was chosen you could browse packages in tree view, clicking on a package would give an over view of the package, what it does and what files it would install.

I really really miss that feature.
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby wobo » Jul 7th, '11, 05:24

Yes. Missing description has already been reported, IIRC. Have to check... no, can't find a matching report against 'Installer' with "package description" as search string.
Now it is: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2057
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Re: My thoughts on Mageia

Postby wobo » Jul 7th, '11, 11:18

I was right, there already was a bug report about this - I wonder why the search in Bugzilla did not show it! :?
https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=549
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