Mageia 8 and Python 2

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Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby msdobrescu » Sep 29th, '20, 03:32

Hello,

What is the plan for the Python 2 EOL?
Will it be still available for Mageia 8?
Will be still supported packages relying on it (like DiaplayCAL, GIMP Resynthesizer)?

Thanks.
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby jibz » Sep 29th, '20, 14:12

Normaly, everything related with python2 will be droped.
But almost everything is now under py3.
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby msdobrescu » Sep 29th, '20, 14:52

Not several things I use, listed above: DisplayCAL, GIMP Resynthesizer, possibly others. Those are of interest to photographers.
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby doktor5000 » Sep 29th, '20, 17:48

Well, if Mageia 8 releases without python2 then you will probably need to find replacements for those, if they haven't been ported in the meantime.

For displaycal, why did you write "I need it back" when it's still working in mga7 and cauldron ?

For GIMP Resynthesizer, according to the upstream discussion you can install it as flatpak which includes the resynthesizer: https://github.com/aferrero2707/gimp-ap ... continuous
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby msdobrescu » Sep 29th, '20, 18:00

Where did I write "I need it back"? It's true, if python 2.x is gone, I would need them back in case I upgrade and I lose them.
Well, I use several distros, Sabayon, KDE Neon, Mageia. As most of them drop python 2.x, I expect trouble.
But really, I don't get completely why losing some unique software due to the fact python 2.x reached EOL? I would need it for several indispensable tools like those two, I think I would live for my passion, like photography, rather than for having the latest software. The computer is a tool, right? I start feeling I am its tool now. A distro should be a service to the community, not vice-versa. It's just me feeling this way?
Don't get me wrong, I understand what means, I want to have the latest and the coolest pieces of software, but not at any cost.
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby benmc » Sep 29th, '20, 21:03

if py2 is dropped, it will still remain in the Mageia 7repo. (if you look, Mageia1 is still in the repos).

so there are some options for you:

keep a Mga7 in a virtual box- just dont let it connect to the internet after your last Mga7 EOL update, as the usual reason (updates) does not apply any more.
Create a new Mageia 7 system, just for those applications that need py2. again, disable the internet function when Mga7 goes EOL.
(or keep your existing Mageia 7 and create a new Mageia8 system.)
Since you appear to be multi-booting, this should not be an issue for you.

then, when your required apps are completely ported to py3, you can install the OS that supports them.
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby doktor5000 » Sep 29th, '20, 22:42

msdobrescu wrote:Where did I write "I need it back"?

https://hub.displaycal.net/issue/17813/#comment-1039
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby msdobrescu » Sep 30th, '20, 05:52

...Three months ago...
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby doktor5000 » Sep 30th, '20, 18:18

Yes, despite the fact that upstream wrote there that this is still ongoing and not a priority for them.
Apart from that, it's not gone, it is still present - if you want to use it, then you can't use the latest and newest linux distros.
Wasn't that your point, that your computer is a tool to you - so why break that tool by installing the latest distro version despite knowing that it would break ?
And afterwards "I need it back", that simply doesn't make any sense, sorry.
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby msdobrescu » Sep 30th, '20, 18:59

Well, it makes a lot sense as long as it is gone in several distros already.
I felt important to add my voice there.
Also, I think people judge too fast those things, as we don't know the reason for moving to the next python being not a priority. We don't know the guy reason, maybe he simply has no time. We don't know what happens with his life, he provided a good tool for many years, why lose patience now?
I am sure all of you and maintainers of other fine distros worked a lot at this migration, you feel you must stop now due to a few things, say you drop them for now, which is perfectly understandable.
What I don't get is why not supplying the latest EOL python version you have for once more as long as you already did in the last years, just to support a few good tools for one more year? Tools for the users, not for the sake of their makers. What is so harmful in this?
I don't say you don't, as I don't know yet for sure, but I see them gone in Cauldron, or I don't know how to look for them...

Now to go to the tools themselves, maybe there are ways to preserve colour calibration, but GIMP Resynthesizer is a technology that few expensive proprietary software have. Good resource that AppImage site, BTW, thank you!
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby doktor5000 » Sep 30th, '20, 20:28

Well, the upstream maintainer mentioned that he does not need nor want help with the migration, e.g. here: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo ... =942988#46
And I'm not losing patience, you created this thread and asked for it to stay.

msdobrescu wrote:What I don't get is why not supplying the latest EOL python version you have for once more as long as you already did in the last years, just to support a few good tools for one more year? Tools for the users, not for the sake of their makers. What is so harmful in this?

Seems you got that twisted. Why should we as a distro provide an outdated core piece of software which is EOL already by upstream, meaning it does neither get security updates nor bug fixes? Just because a few pieces of software have not been ported to the new version?

You can perfectly use an older version of the distro, or e.g. compile a statically-linked version of displaycal yourself, nobody is taking that away from you.
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby msdobrescu » Sep 30th, '20, 20:46

Actually, I have answered to this already.
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby jiml8 » Oct 1st, '20, 05:08

To continue to use outdated software, a virtual machine is your friend.

I still run Windows 2000 software. On a Windows 2000 virtual machine.
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby msdobrescu » Oct 1st, '20, 05:32

Right now I depend on KRDC for my job. VirtualBox is crashing when I use KRDC, seems to be a clipboard sharing problem (some resource lock problem?).
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby jibz » Oct 1st, '20, 10:52

Python3 is 12 years old.
It isn't new, the EOL of py2 is known for years, if nothing was done, we can consider that the project is obsolete or dead. We have to live with our time, so many good tools are in the past and not usable anymore, that's life.

Maintaining a whole stack (py2) is a lot of work, migrating tools was also a challenge, you have to deal with it. Sorry
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby msdobrescu » Oct 1st, '20, 10:59

I know this distro since Mandrake, I have learned Linux with it and Gentoo.
I have a different opinion, there is freedom of speech, so I say it. That's it. No obligation.
I see so many people lately liking to say "you have to deal with it". I will, but that won't change my opinion.
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby doktor5000 » Oct 1st, '20, 18:58

msdobrescu wrote:but that won't change my opinion.

Nobody is trying to force your opinion.

Apart from that, freedom of speech means you can speak nearly whatever you wish. That does not mean others have to agree with that.
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby msdobrescu » Oct 1st, '20, 19:13

Dear guys, you insist so much as I tend to believe you try to change my opinion. It's an opinion, it's on a topic, I don't discuss all that it comes to my mind, as it implies your statement. I really smiled today.
I appreciate you as technicians, I know what means to maintain all these, there is a lot of stress around this migration, I feel you too.
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Re: Mageia 8 and Python 2

Postby jiml8 » Oct 4th, '20, 02:32

I have only recently learned python, so I have no experience with python 2 at all.

But it occurs to me that translating from 2 to 3 might not be a horrible job. I don't know, but it seems reasonable to assume that.

If this is true, then OP might consider translating this valuable program himself.
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