Questions to developers

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Questions to developers

Postby astronom1987 » Jun 2nd, '20, 15:36

Dear developers of Magei Linux, if you would appreciate it if you found out that one of your colleagues SPECIALLY breaks the code of your system?
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Re: Questions to developers

Postby doktor5000 » Jun 2nd, '20, 17:07

It would help if you would add some details on what has been broken by whom in your opinion ?

Also, usually nobody breaks anything on purpose.
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Re: Questions to developers

Postby astronom1987 » Jun 3rd, '20, 06:08

I just decided to ask what would be the reaction to this. Unfortunately, my knowledge of English is not enough to tell in more detail, because I communicate through Google Translator. This topic is currently being discussed at my regional Russian-language Mageia forum. Thanks for your attention.
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Re: Questions to developers

Postby doktor5000 » Jun 3rd, '20, 17:33

Are you talking about this thread ? https://forum.mageia.org.ru/viewtopic.php?id=2165
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Re: Questions to developers

Postby astronom1987 » Jun 4th, '20, 07:34

Yes.
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Re: Questions to developers

Postby doktor5000 » Jun 4th, '20, 17:27

So, for the "conspiracy" part - I can only agree with the comments from TopE. The blog post http://linuxeasy.pp.ua/2020/06/02/sushhestvuet-li-zagovor-protiv-spo-s-tajnymi-dogovorennostyami-vedushhih-proizvoditelej-po-i-zheleza/
has a lot of assumptions and accusations, but no proof at all. Also a lot of that is absurd, in my humble opinion. But regarding the actual points, that are actually only two that apply to Mageia, for that much text ...

  • keyboard layout plugin for XFCE systray missing since Mageia 6
    Mageia Linux decided to annoy the newcomers by removing and removing the plugin to support the settings for changing the keyboard layout and its indicator on the panel! Starting from version 6.0 for Mageia, the corresponding package is completely absent in the system by default, and Mageia itself is the first and so far the only distribution known to me where this was done

    Are you sure you're simply not overlooking something? The package still exists, even for Mageia 7, it's called xfce4-xkb-plugin
    And that package is recommended by task-xfce and there has been no actual change to that since it was forked from Mandriva: http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages/cauld ... 28366#l108
    So if you install task-xfce, you get the indicator. There's also no bug reported against this, yet you still assume back and forth that this was intentionally removed.

    I'll not go down that rabbit hole and reply on the conspiracy parts where you assume that search engines are actively hiding your videos / articles, that is really just absurd. You should probably consult a psychologist or some other professional help.


  • the stuff about Mageia + Intel video cards
    You don't provide any technical details, not even the vendor/product ID of the affected graphics card.

    As a counterexample, the laptop of my parents also has an Intel graphics cards, and due to frequent updates of the i915 driver and the kernel drm driver I had to add some kernel boot options like "i915_enable_rc6=0" to allow the system to boot properly again.
    Then later, after kernel 4.16 I had to remove that again as that was removed from upstream kernel. That was all during the life of Mageia 7, so for your example that you installed one release, and then some months later you installed the same release and it didn't work, this is exactly the same.

    There's no conspiracy except for the one that you make up.



  • the stuff about Mandriva Linux 2007.1 Power Pack + and windows 10

    Sorry, I can only repeat: You should probably consult a psychologist or some other professional help.
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Re: Questions to developers

Postby astronom1987 » Jun 5th, '20, 10:06

I have already told you that I do not have enough knowledge of English to communicate with you. However, I can assure you that as with installing a system from an XFCE live drive or other, the keyboard layout indicator still needs to be installed separately. And as for intel, the problems I described occur only in Mageia since version 2. If you think that in order to download a driver for the video I have to climb into the config, then I do not even want to voice my opinion about of this.
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Re: Questions to developers

Postby doktor5000 » Jun 5th, '20, 21:13

I also don't know russian, but I managed to read the russian forum thread and that blog entry.

astronom1987 wrote:However, I can assure you that as with installing a system from an XFCE live drive or other, the keyboard layout indicator still needs to be installed separately.

That is probably due to space restrictions for the live images. If you think that's a problem, why do you put up some conspiracy theories about Mageia intentionally removing this to harass novice users?
Instead of just adding a bugreport with a feature request "Please add xfce4-xkb-plugin to XFCE live images, thanks in advance" which does not require more then basic english where google translate would more then suffice.
I've asked our XFCE maintainer and the developer who builds our XFCE images, and xfce4-xkb-plugin is not being pulled in by anything. You can check for yourself:
http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages/cauld ... w?view=log

astronom1987 wrote:And as for intel, the problems I described occur only in Mageia since version 2. If you think that in order to download a driver for the video I have to climb into the config, then I do not even want to voice my opinion about of this.

The intel graphic drivers come with the kernel and are installed by default, what are you talking about - and again, where's the bugreport for whatever particular issue you seem to have ?
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Re: Questions to developers

Postby astronom1987 » Jun 6th, '20, 07:35

That is, in your opinion, unsubscribing errors in the tracker can help solve the situation ... I would like to believe you, but I would also like to do a lot in the right system, but based on communication with Russian Linux users, hardly anyone listens to my opinion.
As far as I know, the limit of a live disk is 4.3 GB and as I know now the image from XFCE is much smaller, so you can install this package there, so do not talk about the limit.
You, like the Russians, say that there is no deliberate action to break the system, but judging by the nature of errors in the system and ways to implement them programmatically, I can not find another explanation.
In any case, practice shows that there is no point in discussing these issues further for the reason that this will not make the distribution better and everyone will be left to their own devices.
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Re: Questions to developers

Postby martinw » Jun 6th, '20, 11:07

astronom1987, how would you like it if you had spent thousands of hours of your own free time building the ISOs for Mageia, improving the Mageia tools, and fixing bugs, only to have someone accuse you of deliberately breaking their system, when all that was wrong was that some optional package was not installed by default, even though that package was available and could be easily installed with just a few mouse clicks?

I don't use the Live ISOs myself, but took on the task of building them when the previous maintainer had to give up for health reasons, as a way of giving something back to Mageia. What have you contributed?

You, like the Russians, say that there is no deliberate action to break the system, but judging by the nature of errors in the system and ways to implement them programmatically, I can not find another explanation.


Do you know how many active developers Mageia has? It is a very small number. They can't fix everything. If you know how to fix these errors, why aren't you contributing those fixes?

As for the Xfce plugin, I don't use Xfce, so don't know what that does. Nobody else has complained about its absence, so it can't be that vital. But if you had bothered to submit a bug report about it, it would have been considered.

But in one thing you are right, it is pointless continuing this discussion. Facts will never stop a good conspiracy theory.
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Re: Questions to developers

Postby doktor5000 » Jun 6th, '20, 17:11

astronom1987 wrote:I would like to believe you, but I would also like to do a lot in the right system, but based on communication with Russian Linux users, hardly anyone listens to my opinion.

Did you maybe consider, that many people could have an issue with such conspiracy theories and wild accusations?
Also, when writing about your favorite linux distribution (mostly in negative ways) - instead of actually contributing to those distributions, that many people might simply disagree with you, and understandably dislike you for that approach?

astronom1987 wrote:You, like the Russians, say that there is no deliberate action to break the system, but judging by the nature of errors in the system and ways to implement them programmatically, I can not find another explanation.

You don't get it, do you? The people that create those live images, might not be the ones who use them all the time. They also might not know every desktop environment in detail.
And a small keyboard layout for the systray missing hardly renders those live images less useful. In fact, up to this day, I've not seen a forum thread that mentions the absence of this plugin in the live images.

So if the actual users don't mention that something is missing, how should we know that ?

astronom1987 wrote:In any case, practice shows that there is no point in discussing these issues further for the reason that this will not make the distribution better and everyone will be left to their own devices.

I've tried to tell you how this works: create a bugreport, mention what is broken or what should be changed, and then some developers can try to work on that.
Now your response is, that this will not make the distribution better ... But it will get better by putting up conspiracy theories and wild accusations against the developers ?

Please consider this as the last friendly reminder: You can keep such theories and accusations in your personal blogs or maybe in the russian forum.
If you have any actual support-type questions or if you actually want to discuss something, don't hesitate to post. But not this kind of stuff.
Cauldron is not for the faint of heart!
Caution: Hot, bubbling magic inside. May explode or cook your kittens!
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