Mageia 2 technical specifications

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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby doktor5000 » Oct 12th, '11, 16:09

rijnsma wrote:I don't know yet how to do it just as simple with Grub2.


Basically you'd just launch os-prober from Grub2 and add those entries to /etc/grub.d/40_custom.
Maybe you want to have a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby rijnsma » Oct 12th, '11, 16:29

doktor5000 wrote:
rijnsma wrote:I don't know yet how to do it just as simple with Grub2.


Basically you'd just launch os-prober from Grub2 and add those entries to /etc/grub.d/40_custom.
Maybe you want to have a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2


That's the problem. When I look there I see a lot of text.
And why is that necessary if it can be done easy?

Here I do without reading the program redo-mbr, the program makes menu.lst, let me view and edit,
and resets interactive my MBR without any reading and learning. 2 minutes later and I continue my work and
a new distro on some partition.

Or is that also possible with some program for Grub2? :) I'm curious! ;) And very hopefull.
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby wobo » Oct 12th, '11, 16:38

doktor5000 wrote:Maybe you want to have a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2

Recommended reading! Just scimming through this comprehensive HowTo took away some of my fears&sorrows!
Thx for the link.
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby doktor5000 » Oct 12th, '11, 19:09

Well,the german Ubuntuusers wiki article about Grub2 configuration is even better IMHO: http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/GRUB_2/Konfiguration
Also they have a whole category of other Grub2 documentation: http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/grub_2

And that's when i haven't even seen Grub2 running nor used it ;)
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby wobo » Oct 12th, '11, 20:25

I will test Ubuntu on my netbook and want to have Mageia on a stick to run it as alternative. That's a good occasion to test how grub2 and I can go along together (or not). :)
I'll check the German site (although it's in German).
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby n1ho » Nov 2nd, '11, 16:08

While I think migrating to GRUB2 is generally a good idea, there are a number of issues that I just ran into with trying to do so with Fedora16.

I purchased a 3TB USB drive to use as an auxiliary boot/storage device under Linux. Huh? Well, I have a 5 year old HP dv9000z 17" laptop
with an AMD Turion64 dual-core CPU, and two 80GB internal hard drives. The first drive has (Legacy) GRUB on it, and will happily boot either Windows XP (from first drive) or openSUSE 11.4 from the second drive, and the latter is what I use day-to-day. This laptop has a Phoenix BIOS with no EFI extensions/capabilities.

I then bought, about 3 years ago, a Western Digital 250GB USB "book" drive. It's formatted using a conventional MSDOS partition table, and has a number of partitions on it. I installed Fedora 13 on it at the time, and F13 set up a Legacy GRUB boot block, etc. on that drive. Since then, I've upgraded and added various distros. When the drive is plugged in prior to powering up the laptop, the Phoenix BIOS will see the USB drive and boot off of it, and I can select any of the OSes on either the USB drive or my hard drives and go from there - it's how I initially tested Mandriva and now Mageia.

This summer, I bought a Seagate 3TB USB drive, and attempted the same thing... and have been ever since, to no avail. WHY? Because the Seagate drive has 4096 byte sectoring, not 512 byte, so the Phoenix BIOS can't cope with it AND it appears that, at least at the moment, GRUB2 as implemented by Fedora and Ubuntu is incapable of creating a usable 4096 byte boot block. I worked with the Fedora 16 crew at some length on this issue, and it appears that they are deferring the issue to Fedora 17, and will likely implement something that can be used on those drives that have 4096 byte sectoring internally but presents a 512 byte sector to the outside world. My 3TB drive does have a GPT on it, but that's somewhat irrelevant. Sadly, I suspect I'll never be able to boot this or any other 4096 byte-sectored USB drive off my old 512-byte-oriented Phoenix BIOS, but am considering migrating to an iMac anyway and relegate the HP dv9000z for less critical stuff, such as my ham radio applications. I am able to boot OSes off of the 3TB drive by copying their /boot files to a subdirectory on my primary openSUSE filesystem and adding appropriate stanzas to my main menu.lst file.

So, while GRUB2 is eventually the way to go, there are a number of issues that need to be carefully considered, such as EFI/UEFI compatibility/interoperabilty/support, as well as the same for Apple hardware (which kind of/sort of does EFI/UEFI support but in its own quirky way), not to mention a steep learning curve for its users.
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby rijnsma » Nov 2nd, '11, 16:19

wobo wrote:
doktor5000 wrote:Maybe you want to have a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2

Recommended reading! Just scimming through this comprehensive HowTo took away some of my fears&sorrows!
Thx for the link.

I know. But it is nice if it is Simple.
So not everybody leaves the ship. ;)
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby PietroTux88 » Nov 10th, '11, 00:25

i use JFS now on mageia is ok for you?
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby doktor5000 » Nov 10th, '11, 00:31

Sure, why not, if it works well for you.
But this has nothing to do with the original topic of the thread ...
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby qchmqs » Nov 26th, '11, 15:53

ennael wrote:
dave wrote:
ennael wrote:Great we wait for your help then :)

Ehm... what do you mean?


We are looking also for developers ;)


where can i find the source of the controll center i can rewrite it in Qt
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby doktor5000 » Nov 26th, '11, 17:11

You can either download and install (as user) the src.rpm for drakconf,
or do an anonymous svn cgeckout, for instrcutions please have a look in out wiki:
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Packagers_mg ... s_checkout
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Packagers_sv ... _to_svn.3F

This is what you're looking for: You can also look at http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages/cauld ... f/current/
the svn web frontend, but you can't download directly the sources there as they are inside a seperate svn repository,
but you get them via an anonymous checkout.
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby qchmqs » Nov 27th, '11, 18:47

thanks

i will try to do my best but once i am done

how can i contact you or the mageia team

in simple words how can i send you my finished work once i am done
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby wobo » Nov 27th, '11, 19:12

Pls subscribe to the mageia-dev mailing list. You can reach all developers / packagers there in case of questions -> https://www.mageia.org/mailman/
You may also reach those people in the #mageia channel on freenode.net
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby Max » Nov 28th, '11, 09:52

The #mageia-dev channel on Freenode is also highly populated, mostly with developers and packagers. That's where a lot of the more technical discussions take place.
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby tubasoldier » Dec 3rd, '11, 03:03

Why has Mageia chosen KDE 4.7 for the next release?

KDE 4.8.3 is scheduled for release before Mageia 2. Why not stick with a more up to date version of KDE?
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby pmithrandir » Jan 2nd, '12, 18:35

Another idea for the next release.

A way to allow users to come back to the default desktop con,figuration when they want.
I had a lot of problem with KDE, doing sometimes lot of craps with plasmoid, and I was not always able to come back to something usable. Reinstall is a way to solve the issue sometime(if you don't keep your home) but I think it would be great top have in the MCC something to reset everything to the mageia default.

I think it's only 2 or 3 files to overwrite, so maybe it's not too much time consuming.
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby wobo » Jan 2nd, '12, 19:31

pmithrandir wrote:A way to allow users to come back to the default desktop configuration when they want.

A commonly advised and easy way (for KDE) is to move ~/.kde4 to ~/.kde4.sav and restart.
Don't know for Gnome.
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby Piras » Jan 13th, '12, 00:01

The MCC is still the main triumph of Mageia to attract the novice user. I do not think he needs, so far, of any change. There are other priorities, such as quality of mirrors and of kernel. And dramatically improve the rendering of fonts, which has always been a triumph of Ubuntu (The quality of the fonts in a Mageia is really bad!). The Mageia also needs a proper theme, more modern than the one inherited from Mandriva. And she has yet to make each desktop environment, or at least the most important (KDE, Gnome and Xfce), more friendly for the novice user.

For this reason, I think the Mageia could adopt a policy of "spins", similar to Fedora: a core team taking care of the base system and one primary graphical environment and other teams for each "spin".

A positive policy to emulate Ubuntu (at least Ubuntu the old days) is to encourage the maximum participation of the community, being attentive to their needs and incorporating their contributions quickly.

Small steps such as preparing a booklet of basic configuration of each new version (multimedia, java, adobe flash, adding applications) can do much to make a Mageia most popular distribution. But this depends on both the development team and the community. What is important - more important than anything else - is there a good relationship between the two parties.

In any case, rely heavily on the future of Mageia. And I hope to contribute in some way to do so.

Forgive my bad English!
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby Piras » Jan 13th, '12, 00:14

Another thing I learned from the Ubuntu: a distribution "for all people" should be prudent in the incorporation of new features. Nothing is worse for the beginner than a system full of bugs. A certain conservatism can help greatly in stability and reliability of the distribution. For the most impatient users there could be a mirror similar to the Ubuntu PPA. A friendly distribution should not use a desktop as soon as immature as the "Gnome 3" or Unity.It is no other reason that PCLinuxOS still use Gnome 2!
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby wobo » Jan 13th, '12, 00:33

Piras wrote:And she has yet to make each desktop environment, or at least the most important (KDE, Gnome and Xfce), more friendly for the novice user.
IMHO this is rather an upstream topic for the desktop projects. I do not think Mageia should tamper with these desktop environments like Mandriva does with the RosaLab extension.

A positive policy to emulate Ubuntu (at least Ubuntu the old days) is to encourage the maximum participation of the community, being attentive to their needs and incorporating their contributions quickly.
Right. But Mageia is not a company which has to round up their users to help them (like Mandriva). It is a community including everybody, from the president of the organisation down to the newest user. This (and the necessity for everybody to participate) is what we've been propagating from day 1.

a good relationship between the two parties.
Strictly speaking there are not two parties. But of course we have to be transparent and communicative - that goes for the "just users" likewise. Communication inside the Mageia universe and outside is essential. Here Mageia is on a good way.
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby doktor5000 » Jan 13th, '12, 00:44

Piras wrote:And dramatically improve the rendering of fonts, which has always been a triumph of Ubuntu (The quality of the fonts in a Mageia is really bad!).

That lies in the eye of the beholder. Different people (and different monitors) will always have a totally different reception of fonts, please don't forget that. If you don't like it, you are free to adjust it to your needs, but we should not easily change the defaults.

Piras wrote:For this reason, I think the Mageia could adopt a policy of "spins", similar to Fedora: a core team taking care of the base system and one primary graphical environment and other teams for each "spin".

In general a good idea, but with our current ressources in packagers, this is not doable. If there were many more, maybe this could be considered.
Piras wrote:A positive policy to emulate Ubuntu (at least Ubuntu the old days) is to encourage the maximum participation of the community, being attentive to their needs and incorporating their contributions quickly.

That's what we're trying to achieve. Feel free to point out specific problems which could be improved :)
Piras wrote:Small steps such as preparing a booklet of basic configuration of each new version (multimedia, java, adobe flash, adding applications) can do much to make a Mageia most popular distribution.
That's what we are writing the MAQeias for: viewforum.php?f=36 ;) But we also need additional documentation, f.ex. in our new permanent wiki: https://wiki.mageia.org/ Feel free to help us.
Piras wrote: But this depends on both the development team and the community. What is important - more important than anything else - is there a good relationship between the two parties.
That's the only point where your perception is a bit off. There's no such split between development team and the community. You know, Mageia is a community distro, driven by and for the community. That means every developer is part of the community and every community member can become a developer, in whatever area you wish to work on, be it packaging, documentation, artwork, marketing&communication or quality assurance.
Please have a look here: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Contributing

Otherwise, we can't really ship GNOME2 for Mageia 2, as it isn't supported upstream anymore, that would mean no bugfixes or security updates. If there would be more volunteers to contribute, for example with (properly) packaging cinnamon http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/ that would be possible.
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby Garthhh » Jan 13th, '12, 07:13

Hi Dok
could you explain the gnome 2 thing?
RedHat6 is running Gnome2 until 2017...
there must be some sort of updates
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby pmithrandir » Jan 13th, '12, 08:35

wobo wrote:
Piras wrote:And she has yet to make each desktop environment, or at least the most important (KDE, Gnome and Xfce), more friendly for the novice user.
IMHO this is rather an upstream topic for the desktop projects. I do not think Mageia should tamper with these desktop environments like Mandriva does with the RosaLab extension.


I think the meaning was to make a complete configuration ready to use, to have maybe a tutorial to help people to personalize their desktop or to reset it if they did something really bad.(it helps people to try a lot when they can restart from scratch in few second... and not bother the forum community).

For example, I would start KDE with by default :
- a note system on the desktop
- the meteo of some nice place in the world(up to the user to change it)
- a rss feed from mageia blog

As windows did to get the focus of their user to the new "plasma" stuff in vista.(don't remember the name of their right bar...)
Even if some users are not going to like the default configuration, basic users will know that some plasma system exist, and so they will try to use it.

For instance, there is also the new launcher system on KDE. not really stable now(sometime the icon just disappear until you restart KDE), but if it's going to be stable, it would be a nice to have.
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby rijnsma » Jan 13th, '12, 12:09

I suggest Cinnamon and MATE like Mint does.
I use MATE or switchable Gnome3 & MGSE (almost Cinnamon) for some time now on Mint 12
and both are fantastic, very usable substitutes for Gnome 2. Very stable already.
I'm not really a fan of KDE. I wás a fan of KDE legacy, but also this one has been destroyed.
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Re: Mageia 2 technical specifications

Postby doktor5000 » Jan 13th, '12, 13:02

Garthhh wrote:Hi Dok
could you explain the gnome 2 thing?
RedHat6 is running Gnome2 until 2017...
there must be some sort of updates

Well, the fact that Redhat pays many of the Gnome developers, and Redhat is a commercial enterprise linux distribution,
speaks for itself, no? We just don't have the available ressources to maintain a full desktop environment, when it's unsupported upstream.

@rinjsma: Ok, but we need more packagers for things like that. Did you just volunteer? ;)
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Becoming_a_Mageia_Packager
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