palemoon

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palemoon

Postby wintpe » Sep 29th, '14, 18:28

I had already removed firefox 24 from my mageia 3, and switched to palemoon but here at work on the corperate desktop
this morning after a weekend of updates i was met by the horror of all horrors.

firefox 31

my god what a mess, what an abomination of a browser.

while I can always role my own i do feel people will either love it or hate it.

And I absolutely hate it.

Ive been a firefox user since pheonix, and I dont find Chrome any better, its actually got to the point after looking at internet exploer11
that its actually better than firefox 31 by a mile.

But the reality is im not going to get internet exploer11 running under mageia , so please please for those who like me, will not
take to the new firefox well, please can we have palemoon in the repos.

pull seamonkey, if you are looking for a swap, as quite honestly its not a patch on palemoon, which pretty much ticks all the right boxes.

regards peter
Redhat 6 Certified Engineer (RHCE)
Sometimes my posts will sound short, or snappy, however its realy not my intention to offend, so accept my apologies in advance.
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Re: palemoon

Postby doktor5000 » Sep 29th, '14, 21:17

wintpe wrote:But the reality is im not going to get internet exploer11 running under mageia , so please please for those who like me, will not
take to the new firefox well, please can we have palemoon in the repos.

Nope, sorry - maybe it could be proposed to discuss about swapping firefox with palemoon, but that would put off a lot of our normal firefox users.
We just have very limited ressources, and we have to draw the line somewhere. May I remind you that we currently still have ~ 2500 unmaintained packages ...



But totally apart from that, I can't understand your rage - how is ff31 totally different or an "abomination" compared to 24?
What exactly is your problem with it?


OT: For various other reasons, I'm still in a test run since a few months. Migrated nearly all of my plugins from firefox first to chromium (and recently switched to chrome, as chromium will probably be dropped from Mageia, it's just a horrible nightmare to maintain and even more as it receives updates pretty often)
Everything is pretty peachy so far, but I still miss the functionality of the awesomebar in firefox, it was just much much better and in most cases
only required me to type 2 or 3 letters and it would know the URL I wanted to visit ... :cry:
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Re: palemoon

Postby wintpe » Sep 29th, '14, 23:44

doctor

you obviously live on a different planet to me, so to speak.

just google it and you will see the waves of opposition to firefox,s direction.

we (as in the mass of opposition mounting) just don't need another chrome like browser.

I certainly however would not want mageia to swap firefox for palemoon, people who like it are entitled to use it.

there are a significant number who like it, probably as many who dont.

maybe its like taste in food, some like hot and spicy food, again i dont.

and as more and more chefs pile on the chilli on just about everything

the lack of choice leaves me out in the cold.

firefox Australisocalypse has left me out in the cold. i know im not alone.

palemoon has come to the rescue, and i will use it now for as long as it survives, which may just be longer that firefox.

https://twitter.com/firefoxhate

http://www.palemoon.org/testimonials.shtml

http://www.palemoon.org/info.shtml

regards peter
Redhat 6 Certified Engineer (RHCE)
Sometimes my posts will sound short, or snappy, however its realy not my intention to offend, so accept my apologies in advance.
wintpe
 
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Re: palemoon

Postby doktor5000 » Sep 30th, '14, 03:24

Just to recap, some emphasis added:
doktor5000 wrote:But totally apart from that, I can't understand your rage - how is ff31 totally different or an "abomination" compared to 24?
What exactly is your problem with it?


If your only problem with it is "waves of opposition" and "mass of opposition" then I cannot help with that.
In general, I don't give a rats sh*t what "all the people" rage about. If something works for me, I'll use it, not matter what someone says.
If something is just bullsh$t and everybody will tell me what fine product that is, I don't care. If it doesn't work, I won't use it.

But in both cases, I've got specific reasons why or why not to use or to like something.

Let me tell you something: I've used firefox even before it was called that, back when it was called phoenix (pre-1.0)
I've had some smaller temporary issues when they switched to 4.0 but afterwards there were no major things that put me off, which cannot be easily disabled or changed when doing distribution packages. Or when customizing it to your liking. My firefox is also quite customized because I didn't like some of the design decisions or defaults they had chosen. But so what?

But until now, you didn't mention even one particular reason what puts you off related to ff31. If it's about australis UI, that can be changed.

For something else, you may want to consider some current Mageia users of firefox. We had at least 3 requests to enable webRTC,
which is not available with palemoon. You know, we still have to satisfy the rest of our userbase ... which is not always easy.

Or put another way, if you want to maintain palemoon for Mageia, just provide me a src.rpm and I can import that.
But then you also have to do the rest of the maintenance, that is security updates, version updates and fixing bugs.
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Re: palemoon

Postby wintpe » Sep 30th, '14, 10:43

firstly ill point out

Sometimes my posts will sound short, or snappy, however its realy not my intention to offend, so accept my apologies in advance.

which means im aware that sometimes a post may come across like that but its not intended.

secondly

ABOVE: I certainly however would not want mageia to swap firefox for palemoon, people who like it are entitled to use it.

and to add I too used firefox from pheonix , the very first edition, and loved it from that day.

But , australis UI is definitely the final straw to a browser, whose devs who, as ive found in the past

dont like criticism, even to the point of deleting threads from the forum.

Ill leave it there, and role my own.

regards peter
Redhat 6 Certified Engineer (RHCE)
Sometimes my posts will sound short, or snappy, however its realy not my intention to offend, so accept my apologies in advance.
wintpe
 
Posts: 1204
Joined: May 22nd, '11, 17:08
Location: Rayleigh,, Essex , UK

Re: palemoon

Postby doktor5000 » Sep 30th, '14, 16:59

wintpe wrote:Sometimes my posts will sound short, or snappy, however its realy not my intention to offend, so accept my apologies in advance.
which means im aware that sometimes a post may come across like that but its not intended.


Peter, that is totally comprehensible, and this is not an issue at all for me. I'm more after the actual content of your post, not the attitude or how it might sound like :)

wintpe wrote:ABOVE: I certainly however would not want mageia to swap firefox for palemoon, people who like it are entitled to use it.


Ok, so what would be your proposal then? Add palemoon as another addditional browser?
That is certainly an option in theory: https://wiki.mageia.org/en/How_to_repor ... ge_request
In practice it comes down to the questions: Who will do the work initially? Who will maintain it later on? See my first reply for more details.
So if you want to roll your own packages, feel free to announce them here. Or you can also maintain them directly in Mageia.
Whatever you like better.

If you need any help with the packaging part, feel free to ask me ;) Maybe I'll also do some test of palemoon and compare it to
my current Chrome and my currently unused Firefox, lets see what the results will be.

Just FWIW and as a sidenote, there are not even any packages for palemoon for any distro yet.
This also says something about the real distribution of a piece of software ...

wintpe wrote:But , australis UI is definitely the final straw to a browser, whose devs who, as ive found in the past

As mentioned, yes this is disputable and I partially agree with you (like some other features like tabs at the bottom, the animated and ressource-wasting new tab page, tab panorama and some other things) but it can be configured to look like an older firefox.
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Re: palemoon

Postby wintpe » Oct 2nd, '14, 13:49

Im currently grabbing the pclinos srpm from rpmforge its not a typical rpm,

more a wrapper to get the compiled code from the palemoon download site and wrap it into an rpm, that deploys correctly.

you also have to add a path to your .bashrc for flash to work as its not expecting the mageia loc.

other than that its fast, does not have the memory leaks that many complain of, of firefox, (not that ive ever encountered them).

my usage of a browser is very old fashion, i dont like or use tabs so im not likely to have a browser open all day with 100 tabs in it.
as a result what matters to me , is that i can start it from the task bar, quickly press a button for bookmarks drop down and select something
like this site, or use google to find something new. when im finished with that site, i close the app instance. While im not opposed to change in general, I am opposed to change for the sake of change, that forces me to find workarounds for the way i used to work, that more often that not slow me down.
for example the app bino is an app I am eager to see new features in.
kde has like firefox gone too far, hence why i now use rasorqt and will possibly jump at lxqt when mageia 5 is stable.

if you want to try my build it its also downloadable from

http://www.linuxpc.co.uk/download/palem ... x86_64.rpm

or just get from rpmforge

http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/4/ ... 4.rpm.html

and get the latest srpm and rebuild.

as you possibly know im still hanging onto mga3 (simply because it 100% works) and i dont need any new features.

I think that will install on mga4 as well.

thanks for the comments

regards peter
Redhat 6 Certified Engineer (RHCE)
Sometimes my posts will sound short, or snappy, however its realy not my intention to offend, so accept my apologies in advance.
wintpe
 
Posts: 1204
Joined: May 22nd, '11, 17:08
Location: Rayleigh,, Essex , UK

Re: palemoon

Postby doktor5000 » Oct 2nd, '14, 15:33

wintpe wrote:more a wrapper to get the compiled code from the palemoon download site and wrap it into an rpm, that deploys correctly.

Sorry, I'm afraid this could not be included in Mageia as it's against our policy. Each software where sources are available has to be compiled on our buildsystem.
Also from a short look, they have the same or more issues as mozilla. They bundle quite a lot of libraries instead of using the system ones, so you should also think about who will provide security updates for those ...
And recommended compiler is MS Visual Studio ... the pm4linux project only offers compiled tarballs.

I'll try to have a look if I find some time.
Cauldron is not for the faint of heart!
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Re: palemoon

Postby wintpe » Oct 8th, '14, 14:57

yes agreed , i was not suggesting it went into mageia as is,

more a method for you to evaluate it for yourself, and others

also if they wish.

some significant work required to get it into mageia from where it stands.

regards peter
Redhat 6 Certified Engineer (RHCE)
Sometimes my posts will sound short, or snappy, however its realy not my intention to offend, so accept my apologies in advance.
wintpe
 
Posts: 1204
Joined: May 22nd, '11, 17:08
Location: Rayleigh,, Essex , UK


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