Linux and the average user

[indy]

I wish to comment on my experience with Linux OS's. I have been building computers as a side line for just over 9 years. I use Win 7, OS 10.7 and Ubuntu 12.04 on my main PC's/Laptops. I first got interested in using Linux and open source software after reading about it 4 or 5 years ago. Ubuntu 9.?? was the first one I tried. I really liked it! I built a few Pentium 4 units and gave them away to fellow employees who were willing to try them out.

All the units were returned in a few months. One user said, “I just can't figure it out”. All had varying opinions. All reported usage issues that they were not willing to waste their time figuring out. One lady really liked GIMP and Open Office but said the OS was not that user friendly and preferred Windows instead.

I keep Ubuntu 12.04 on an IBM T41 I acquired in a trade. Personally I like Ubuntu as I have found it works with the least amount of issues compared to other Linux OS's I have tested. In the last few weeks I have installed and began using Win 8. I'll reserve my comments about Win 8 but suffice it to say I am taking a closer look at what Linux has to offer. I want to offer my customers a replacement/alternative operating system to any version of Microsoft Windows.

I have installed/tested the following OS's on a couple of laptops and Intel and AMD powered desktops. I installed, Ubuntu 12.04, Fedora 16, Debian, Mint, Zorin, Open Suse12.2 and finally Mangeia. I liked them all, especially Mint and Mangeia. I experienced what I will say are moderate issues that I was able to fix quickly and some took more research time.
After completing the installs I asked my wife to use/test each unit for day-to-day computing and let me know what she thought.
I would classify my wife as an above average Windows user. She, like most people, started out with Windows 95 and over time has figured out how to get each version of Windows to do what she needs it to do. She is currently using Win 7 without any issues.

This takes me to the point I wish to make. Linux OS's are not ready for the “average user”. Don't get me wrong, I think many of them are great and will continue to use them. My comments are based on my experiences trying to get the “average user” to use Linux and that of others reported in blogs and forums all over the Net. People want Linux to work but the average user can't use it without issues! One customer said, “Why are there so many versions?” Another asked, why don't all the developers get together and make one killer version that would blow away Windows? Another said, “you need to be a geek to figure it out”. The blogs and forums say it all!
I hope that in the future Linux developers will consider that most average users just want an operating system that works without having to tinker with it in order to get it to work.

As for Mangeia, I love it and will continue to use and experiment with it. I wish to thank ALL the people around the world for their contributions to open source and the development of Linux systems.

[oldcodger]

An interesting write up.
What's this Mangeia that you write about? I have not heard of that one.

[indy]

Sir, I refer to Mageia-2. I found this version of Linux while online reading an article posted by Steven J. Vaughn-Nichols. The article is titled "The 5 most popular Linux distributions" dated August 26, 2012.

[richardwest]

All the units were returned in a few months. One user said, “I just can't figure it out”. All had varying opinions. All reported usage issues that they were not willing to waste their time figuring out. One lady really liked GIMP and Open Office but said the OS was not that user friendly and preferred Windows instead.

From the other end of the telescope, as a Linux user for the past 13 years, when I am forced to use Windows at work I find it very difficult to figure out and not very intuitive, for instance I am always trying to highlight and then middle click to copy and paste and of course nothing happens.

It's not that one system is necessarily better than the other, just that they are different and the one that you are used to is the easiest and the other difficult.

[doktor5000]

when I am forced to use Windows at work I find it very difficult to figure out and not very intuitive, for instance I am always trying to highlight and then middle click to copy and paste and of course nothing happens.

Same thing for me, except that i got a linux client at my new dayjob, so no big issue
But i know what you mean, it's pretty difficult if you really get accustomed to something more comfortable/efficient and so elegant like X clipboard, to not have it anymore.

[someonee]

I don't know if its me but why is it so complicated to have a simple problem every linux distribution is slightly different so even if you search for a answer to the same problem you get about 15 different answers. So your brave and want to learn comandline you can't even find the right information. And if you do find the right information then what happens you only get half the answer what happens when your solution is the problem and brakes your system. I know what I would do on windows. If feel like people hold back information allot of times... Either they assume your a power user or they want to be the smart ones.
You could lose it trying to get a video card working or a sound card. I have watched pro's that make there own distoro spend over 4 hours getting something to working changing kernels trying different tricks. If it takes a pro that spend excessive amounts of time to get something done how does a layman get anything done.

If there was any words that ever help programs its K.I.S.S Keep it simple stupid. I don't have time for this. I don't have time to spend 4hours or 2 days upgrading my computer every 8 months.

[wobo]

I do not say that all you wrote is wrong.
But it is written with the Windows paradigm back in your mind - "All software is ruled by Microsoft and their APIs:". In Linux all software is written with only 2 ruling facts: hardware and development skills. Your solution would be the Microsoft paradigm, my solution is the variety of a software world where everybody finds everything to his liking (if not he is free to create a new part of the existing universe).

BTW: I've starte with Linux back in 1995 and believe me, whenwver I thought I knew it all a door opened to a whole new and (for me) unknown world - until today and tomorrow. There is no one world with a limited set of knowledge in Linux. There is no one ideal answer to one question (except for the basic things). Yesterday I learned a new and better workflow for a work I've been doing for years. Because I stopped searching after I found the first solution to the problem. This is also a result of the variety in Linux which I like so much.

[someonee]

i tried mageia first time today beta release does not boot my videocard crashed i tried other kernel and even safe mode nothing.

[jkerr82508]

i tried mageia first time today beta release does not boot my videocard crashed i tried other kernel and even safe mode nothing.

What exactly did you try? Mageia 3 is the version currently in development and Beta 1 has not yet been released.

Why not try the stable version, Mageia 2:

http://www.mageia.org/en/downloads/

Jim

[someonee]

Ya i now tried v2 ... no luck... I mean it did boot into normal mode but then it was slow and sluggish and my 1 year old kid decided to reset my computers..... She loves to push buttons. So now I can't boot into it nor can I wait to get into recovery mode as that was taking along time.

[snackboy]

I mean it did boot into normal mode but then it was slow and sluggish

Go into < configure your desktop > and disable some fancy things. like "desktop effects "

I had /have that problem on my 32Bit hardware with 2Gb ram.
nb: other distros have same issue.


I just installed Mageia2 on 64 bit hardware......extremely speedy.

[morgano]

Someone: Possibly you do not have the optimal graphic driver.
If you need help we can help.

On the topic of average user, also my wife and children use Linux and it is much easier to support them now when we all use same system.
Generally i find Linux systems easier to get information about, understand, explain, and manage than some MSWindows.
But it is about knowing where to look, and get the "culture" about it.
With Linux a lot of applications are installed in an snap, while on windows i find myself searching, hunting drivers, etc.
I do have XP in a VM for a couple old programs that need it, my son play a couple games on XP (but most on Linux), and sometimes i help my parents on Win7.
Generally i face(d) more problems on any MSWindow than mageia.
Then there is also the economic aspect, licensing issues about backup copies and VM, general opennes and politics. Linux win them all too.

[someonee]

Well I tried it again in a next day and it worked.... I have a newish computer 2011 mostly up to date.... Not the best video card but enuf for me.. And I would not like to lose too much. As well my video card some how conflicts with the nouveau driver linux has it will flicker every once in a while.

I'm not sure what I should do I have issues with 64 bit windows so I always stick with 32bit because of software issues.

You seem so eager to try to win me over.

Issues like internet being slow... Given I have a budget wireless that can't seem to hold a strong signal to the cheap ass telus router. However it was stronger under windows and mint so I know its not my connection. But things like that will drive me crazy. Rather odd telus that is ... Sometimes speeds are fast sometimes slow as hell... Telus is terrible. And I'm not talking about the connection its there router.

I would like to have the video working as well. Internet the odd game not really really like a rock solid internet connection.

As well windows 8 seams to lose the connection completely and I get the creeps because of that.

Windows is easy I tell you that hands down! but you have no option like it or hate it there only one option and be had. You be hard pressed to solve minor issues. ... I was hopping to be won over on Linux since they did such a good job with Android or should I say Samsung.

[M8R3t0f541]

After completing the installs I asked my wife to use/test each unit for day-to-day computing and let me know what she thought.
I would classify my wife as an above average Windows user. She, like most people, started out with Windows 95 and over time has figured out how to get each version of Windows to do what she needs it to do. She is currently using Win 7 without any issues.

So, your wife has 18 years of experience with Windows, and I have no doubt that this has not been without small or major issues either.
When I got my first iPod a few years ago, I needed time to figure it out, when I got my first Android device last year, I needed time to figure it out.

I may not be your average user, but I don't have the illusion that any unfamiliar technology does not require some time to understand and solve the issues.

The difference is that I enjoy researching new technology and making mistakes and learning from it.
When your wife started with Windows 95, she had no alternative. I suggest that you ban Windows from your home and stick with your favorite distro for 18 years and lets's then talk again about the point you are trying to make.

-- The problem of your 'average user experiment' is that you ask people to do you a favor. They are not motivated to become linux users.
Your experiment is similar to asking a baroque music enthusiast to listen for a day to Wagner and let you know how they like it. Or serve a 'meat and potato' guy a vegetable dish and ask them how they like it.
I assume that no one of your experimenters would have made the choice to switch to linux at all, would you not agree?
So how valuable is their feedback?

Looking forward to your response!

[johnbachel]

As a long time Windows user, frustrated by the cluelessness of Microsoft as shown in products like Windows 8 and Office 365, I've been investigating Linux distributions and tried several, among them Mint and Mageia. And, while I like the appearance of Mageia, to me it has two crippling defects that prevent me from using it. First, the live CD, which is convenient for installation ships without functional printer services. Although I tried installing it several times, I could never get Mageia's printer app to work - it always seemed to be missing software needed for it to operate, but gave no clue of what needed to be installed.

The Mageia DVD's are huge, but for some reason don't include wireless drivers in them. Why Mageia could't find room to include them on the DVD file, when it includes them on the CD file is beyond me, given that most consumers use laptops these days.

So, in the end, I wound up using Linux Mint, which works out of the box. Mageia needs to get it's distributions to the same level of finish to expect wide adoption by those who are relative newbies.

Just my two cents.

John

[doktor5000]

The Mageia DVD's are huge, but for some reason don't include wireless drivers in them. Why Mageia could't find room to include them on the DVD file, when it includes them on the CD file is beyond me, given that most consumers use laptops these days.

That is because the LiveCD contains nonfree drivers and such, but the Free DVD does not, this is intended, but will change with Mageia 3.
Please see also https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Installation_Media for more information about that.

[johnbachel]

Thanks - do you know anything about the missing printer services issue? If I had been able to figure that out, I would have used Mageia.


John

[alf]

simply said, there's not enough space left on the LiveCD for all the printer stuff. But once you have the rpm-sources enabled and try to configure a printer all needed packages will be installed.