Package Management

[CitizenJoe]

I wish you would include Synaptic package manager to your distro! Apper does NOT work. And Drake is next to useless! You can get Apper to show a list of system apps/files Synaptic style but when you try to install nothing happens and to click on other "groups" NOTHING HAPPENS!! Synaptic doesn't have the pretty group icons but at least you could find the files you were looking for!! This is also the 21st century!! We should not have to type in cryptic commands at the command prompt to do the job that graphical Synaptic does just as well and faster! If going to the command prompt gives you a testosterone boost, great, but some of us aren't concerned about that. If you can't remember what the file or program is called the full alphabetical list in Synaptic is fantastic! Neither Drake or Apper appear to handle dependencies any better or perhaps as well as Synaptic. Just because they are newer does not mean that they are more capable. Other Mandriva forks have Synaptic so there is no reason it can't be used. Maybe Drake might be more newbie friendly than Synaptic for package management and updating but that is no reason to not offer it for those who like its capabilities! It has to be one of the oldest most tested reliable package managers there is. Some of us prefer function over looks! The problems with the graphical package manager back in Ubuntu 10 were the catalyst to find something better and to date Synaptic is the most consistently reliable package manager I have found! Some of us aren't interested in "Diet" or Lite" we want the full meal deal!! When trying out a distro, the first thing I look at is package management! If that is a frustrating pain, doesn't work, or is command line only, I go elsewhere because in 2015 there is NO REASON for that!! I don't care how polished the desktop is or how snappy it performs. If it is a pain in the butt to use, it is not worth it! I really like the "Mandriva" OS and your Mageia 5 appears to be a very stable and capable modern distro. Package management is the only significant negative issue I have encountered. Libre Office Manager is also a really useful tool to keep LibreOffice up to date! It would be nice to find that in your repositories! Current for LibreOffice is 5.0.3 while your repositories are still back at 4.4.6! It should take very little effort to add these two programs to your repositories! For someone who uses LibreOffice on a number of computers it is a bit of an issue. It is nice to have the same software versions on all your computers!

i7 3930 overclocked to 3.8 GHz, 32 gig RAM 2400 MHz, Nvidia 960 4 gig, Mushkin SSD, 3x 3 terrbyte drives.
i7 4770 overclocked to 4.2 GHz, 16 gig RAM 2133 MHz, Nvidia 760 2 gig, Mushkin SSD, 4x WD Black 4 terrabyte drives.

[doktor5000]

You don't expect an answer, do you? And FWIW synaptic (and the others you mentioned, too) is not a package manager, but a graphical frontend for a package manager.

[CitizenJoe]

Yes, a reply would be nice to know why apt/Synaptic are not in the repositories. You are correct in that Synaptic is only the "front end", so, can we get apt as well to go behind it? That "technicality" does not change any of the points. Case in point, go to Drake and look for dcss for DVD playback. In NO FORM can it be found anywhere to verify that it is available or installed! Only through the list under "system" in Apper, which would NOT install anything or show any other lists, could I find it to verify that it was installed!! This is so simple and easy in apt/Synaptic!!! There are many distros that have a pretty package manager like Drake but also have apt/Synaptic for those who want something more powerful. Consideration of Libre Office Manager would also be nice. If there is a technical reason why it can not be included, that would be nice to know. Having the latest version of the software you use daily is a really nice thing!

[doktor5000]

Well, apt is in the repositories:

Code: Select all

[doktor5000@Mageia5]─[21:25:34]─[~] urpmq -i apt
Name        : apt
Version     : 0.5.15lorg3.94
Release     : 18.mga5
Group       : System/Packaging
Size        : 1137425                      Architecture: x86_64
Source RPM  : apt-0.5.15lorg3.94-18.mga5.src.rpm
URL         : http://www.apt-rpm.org/
Summary     : Debian's Advanced Packaging Tool with RPM support
Description :
A port of Debian's apt tools for RPM based distributions.
Original RPM port done by and for Conectiva. It provides
the apt-get utility that provides a simple way to install
and upgrade packages. APT features complete installation
ordering, multiple source capability and several other
unique features.

[doktor5000@Mageia5]─[21:25:56]─[~]

I won't comment that much on your demand for synaptic, only a few bits. As it's only a frontend, it doesn't do dependency resolution. The backend does dependency resolution. IMHO urpmi works just fine, even in complex scenarios. Sure, apt has quite some features that might be interesting to have for urpmi, but we only have a limited amount of ressources. If you like to see more features or any other changes, feel free to provide a patch and attach it to a bugreport.
And you shouldn't use apper, in its current form it's broken.

For your other remarks: dvdcss is showing up normally here:

Bildschirmfoto2_226.png (136.86 KiB) Viewed 4230 times

Usually the very first thing is to set the filter to "all packages" instead of the default "packages with gui".

Please first read https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Installing_a ... rrectly.3F
and maybe https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Install_medi ... _beginners to get started with software management in Mageia.

And for libreoffice manager, we have a policy that all software that is offered via the Mageia repos has to be compiled on the Mageia buildsystem.
If you like that manager, feel free to use it. But we cannot add such software as it has to be tested and our QA team is already overloaded.
Additionally we currently have more then 3.500 unmaintained packages, and adding to that pile is a pretty bad idea.
Although contribution is always welcome. See https://www.mageia.org/contribute/

[filip]

Welcome CitizenJoe.

And Drake is next to useless!

I don't really understand that as it works great for me. Can you elaborate what doesn't work as expected? Besides already mentioned "Packages with GUI" gotcha.

It should take very little effort to add these two programs to your repositories!

It seems that you're experienced in packaging and/or support. So please consider giving us a hand.

BTW. Did you check Mageia Welcome application? It can be very useful in many cases.
And IMHO there's always a little gap between deb and rpm based distros.

[CitizenJoe]

Thanks Doktor5000 and filip!

Yes I did check the Mageia Welcome application and the forums. All I could find was another user having similar issues with Drake and wanting apt/Synaptic. I can fully believe that Apper is broken! Unfortunately! I really like that complete list of files! I wish there was a way to get Drake to display a full list like that rather than just program groups. If you can find the file Drake works fine. It is the searching for files that causes my frustration. I guess that I got spoiled. I found and got apt but I don't have sudo privileges and do far can't log in as root to use it. I tried sudo apt-get and was told that my root password does not have sudo privileges. Sudo is fine for most things but especially working with permissions I find logging in as root or opening a root program is more consistent. It is a royal pain moving a large drive to a different computer with a different system and most of the files are unavailable because of permissions and changing permissions as user doesn't do anything. When I try to install Synaptic it is missing dependencies so wont install and without a full list of files like Apper or Synaptic hunting them down is impossible for me. The missing dependencies are listed but I have no way to find individual files other than Apper which is broken. I like Debian but Like Mandriva forks better. The Mageia Control Center which is from the original Mandrake is brilliant! I've been using PCLinuxOS for years but lately it has been causing real trouble with VLC, even a fresh install. Other widgets that didn't before crash now. Development seems to have stalled so I am looking for another Mandriva based distro. I need a stable base to work from. There is no one with the repositories they have. Debian doesn't even match them for the availability of programs. Some can be downloaded from their makers so I am hoping to be able to continue with some of them. Rosa is still using kernel 3.16 which does not fully support the hardware on my 3930 so I had issues there. I need a newer kernel and the 4.1x here seems to do well. This is very responsive and so far I've seen nothing but absolute stability! Startup, opening programs, and shutdown are super quick! For a base system I am quite impressed!

Thanks guys, the Gui selection got me! Both drop down menus need to be "all"!

[filip]

Startup, opening programs, and shutdown are super quick! For a base system I am quite impressed!

Great.

[doktor5000]

FWIW, you can easily search for files in rpmdrake, if that's what you're asking for. Simply switch the search mode (3) to files. See http://doc.mageia.org/mcc/5/en/content/ ... html#d4e65

For synaptic, how exactly do you try to install which package?

And for sudo, you need to configure it first. https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Configuring_sudo

[CitizenJoe]

I tried this and could not edit the wheel file because the user does NOT have root privileges! I installed a new hard drive to try to set up a computer for my cousin with Mageia and Gparted created everything perfectly. DAMN, I went to open the drive in Caja and I had to put in the root password to mount it!! The drive belongs to root and user must have root privileges to use it! Mageia does NOT have root or sudo to change the permissions!!! Do you have any idea how frustrating that is having to put in the root password to open a drive, EVERY TIME?????? Why can't you make sudo configured in the installation like MANY other distros???? This is the 21st century!!! You should not have to be a command line wizard to use a Mandriva distro! You have a very nice distro but you can't do anything with it!!! Anything beyond a basic use single disk installation and unless you are a linux guru, you are screwed!! As much as a lot of people like to deny, a root account you can log in with solves ALL these problems!!!! I tried repeatedly to make Mageia work.

[xboxboy]

Mageia does NOT have root or sudo to change the permissions!!!

This has been discussed regularly, on the forums, in IRC and sometimes even the mailing lists. As a community, and the mandrake/mandriva legacy, have decided that sudo is not configured by default. This is wise on many fronts, but if you are used to sudo and feel the need, then simply configure it. Many, many users have no idea what sudo is or how it is configured. So it's actually another positive if you need to learn how to use/configure it.

As for no root user, yes there is always a root user by default. I'm not quite sure how you come to that conclusion. To view the 'root' owned disk with a gui (I assume you're using kde) simply use:

Code: Select all

kdesu dolphin

either from the terminal or from the quick launcher (Alt + F2), it will then ask for the root password and open dolphin in a root session: ***Be very careful when operating as root:- Bad things can happen all too easily***

Now, that hard drive is owned by root, we can sort that out. But we need to know it's purpose ie. is it a portable drive, a temporary drive, a permanent drive? etc.

I personally always have a chuckle when a *buntu/debian/other 'sudo' based user moves over. They carry on about sudo not being configured, when I find sudo a crazy solution for most users, and we have the MCC suite of tools to accomplish almost anything most users could ever need...

So take a deep breath, explain what you want to do, what you've done so far, what it's doing/not doing and we can sort it out. The Magiea community is one of the nicest online communities I've ever experienced.

[doktor5000]

I tried this and could not edit the wheel file

What's the wheel file?

Mageia does NOT have root or sudo to change the permissions!!!

Yes, we do have a root account, like most others distros. And yes, we do have sudo, just not configured by default.

As much as a lot of people like to deny, a root account you can log in with solves ALL these problems!!!!

Well, I have a root account that I can log into - as all other Mageia users have too, by default.

As you don't provide any substantial details to support you with a specific issue, can't really help you further.

[CitizenJoe]

"root logins are not allowed" By default you can NOT log is as root!
The wheel file mentioned is from the Wiki for setting up sudo but you have to have root privileges to edit the file which you can't do since you don't have root privileges. You are correct that everything needed for system setup can be done in the fantastic MCC! This fabulous control center is largely why I love mandriva based distros! When I install a new drive with Gparted, or any other disk manager, I have to have root access to change permissions so that I can use the drive as user. That is what I like so much with other distros that have a root account set up by default. I'm NOT looking for root account for doing anything to the system but just to simply and easily change permissions. A file manager "as root" (not sudo dolphin) does this 99% of the time without having to log in as root. I Love Mageia but this is what is preventing me from using Mageia on my daily use computers! This is why I ended up installing another distro on my cousins computer! NO WAY would it allow me to change permissions on internal drives. No sudo no root. If the tools I need are denied to me the distro is of no use to me and is no more than an intriguing toy to play with when I have nothing else to do. The notion that every Linux user with root access is going to exclusively log in as root and do their browsing and all other activities exclusively in root is absurdly ridiculous! Nonsense! I've been using a Mandriva based distro with full root account and full sudo preconfigured since 2009 and log in as root at most once or twice a year for a few minutes to do specific tasks and then log out and back in as user. I would suggest that this applies to most users who have root. The guardians of secrets are simply wrong and are needlessly making Linux less accessible and less usable for a lot of people. So a few careless people completely bork their system. Making mistakes is how we learn. Crippling the system for everyone (besides Linux gurus) because of potential or theoretical mistakes a few people might make is very backward thinking. With the MCC users have very, very infrequent need to log in as root but denying users the tools they need to make the system work is not in anyone's best interest and prevents a lot of people from moving to Linux in general and Mageia in particular. Like I said, the only way Mageia can be installed and used in it's present form is single disk. It does NOT come with the tools enabled to add drives to an existing installation and access the files on the drive. That requires root or at least sudo which are not available for this task. Windows users have not had to do anything at the command prompt for almost 20 years yet the guardians of the linux secrets are demanding that users be fluent at the command prompt to use many Linux distros. In 2016 that is unnecessary and unacceptable, especially with the MCC! My working with DOS at the command prompt is long ago and far away! A warning on the Mageia Welcome of potential damage by using root while giving people the ability to setup and run their systems would be much appreciated!

[doktor5000]

"root logins are not allowed" By default you can NOT log is as root!

Not sure what you're talking about, as you don't provide any context information. If you're talking about logging in as root into a graphical desktop, then yes most desktops do not allow that by default.
And yes that is a good thing, root logins to graphical desktop should be disregarded. There are a few threads in the forum on how to enable that, but you have to search for yourself.

For file manager as root, there are various extensions that allow this via a service menu. E.g. for KDE there's kde-rootactions-servicemenu packaged in our repositories.

For the other mass of the text regarding root and sudo and access to other disks/partitions, you seem to be only accusing and complaining.
Not once do you ask the question on how to achieve the tasks you want achieved. Good luck with that stance.

Apart from that, again: root is available, it's not hidden in any way, it's the same like on any other sane distribution.
sudo is also available, and needs to be configured - like on any other sane distribution.