LTS for Mageia 5

LTS for Mageia 5

Postby MadmanRB » Apr 22nd, '15, 13:03

I know from a logistics POV making a LTS with such a small staff is kind of bad but I honestly think Mageia 5 should become a LTS after it comes out.
The main rationale is Plasma 5, more distros are ditching KDE4 for plasma 5 and unfortunately its not ready for primetime.
Sadly some distros dont care, especially Kubuntu which will use Plasma 5 in its unready state.
Plasma 5 still has a long way to go before it becomes ready, in another three years yeah but now?
No
Since Mageia is mainly a KDE distro this is a critical time, sure its gnome shell is okay but I hate gnome shell.
I think Mageia 5 should have a 3 year lifespan as opposed to just 1, this will be a bit taxing I know but I think stability outweighs any future versions.
If there is a Magia 6 still make it but devote that time to keep Mageia 5 up to date.
I would say do the LTS for Mageia 4 but the lack of UEFI support rules it out
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby doktor5000 » Apr 24th, '15, 21:45

Sure - after you organize all those additional contributors for the packaging, security, QA and bugsquad teams so the next 5 years are covered.
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby MadmanRB » Apr 26th, '15, 05:57

Well that is why I suggest 3 years, 5 years is a stretch.
I know Mageia doesnt have the same resources Canonical does.
Just patching security and the like, cerrtainly that isnt impossible methinks.
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby doktor5000 » Apr 26th, '15, 14:11

No problem, too - after you organize all those additional contributors for the packaging, security, QA and bugsquad teams so the next 3 years are covered.
Or otherwise we don't do security updates and bugfixes - but not sure if that would be helpful to anyone. Also if that's your understanding for LTS, we already have that.
Download Mageia 4 and use it for the next 3 years, nobody prevents you from doing that.
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby oden » May 8th, '15, 19:17

Hi all,

I'm willing to persue the venture of providing LTS for Mageia 5. If so I need to know expected customer base as salaries will have to be paid. I have already spoken with some key people from the Mageia galore that will help out, more to come I hope. Investments will have to be made in form of hardware, infrastructure, etc. Paperwork will have to be composed, signed and so forth.

For me the idea came up yesterday and is currently a bit sketchy, but as some of you may know I have long history and experience performing the actual work.

So, I just thought, why the hell not?

Who is with me on this?

If you have any questions or have something interesting to say or want to sign up straight away, please send a mail directly to me at oe@nux.se.

Regards // Oden Eriksson, CEO @ NUX AB
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby doktor5000 » May 8th, '15, 23:02

Hi Oden,

maybe it would be better to first wait for Mageia 5 final and for the dust to settle a bit, and then do this query for a wider audience,
including blog post and posts on social networks to get a good idea how many people want this and how many people would like to pay how much for this.
My doubt is that this offer could drown within the general mga5 release rush ...

If you think it's still worth pursuing in the meantime already I can make this a sticky thread or global announcement to improve visibility (at least here in the forums) :)

@all: For those of you that don't know Oden, he was a Mandriva/Mandrake contributor for nearly 10 years, and 4 years a part of their security team.
Nowadays he's working on Mageia security fixes/updates (and also on Fedora, as far as I know).
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby ChuangTzu » May 8th, '15, 23:41

Oden and Doktor,

I also think offering the occassional LTS release could be a viable option. If not 3-5 years, then perhaps extending 18 month support to 24, would not be as much of a stretch, and yet provide a slightly longer release. Standard 18 month release could be the "free" version, and LTS could be a "paid" or donation required version for anything beyond 24 months etc..., just some thoughts.

Making the post a sticky is a great idea!

Willing to help if needed.
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby oden » May 9th, '15, 08:21

It's actually 11 years as a contractor at Mandriva and the last 6 years working with security, before that I was a contributer for 5 years, so in total I've been around for 16 years. Quite amazing really...

The other day I realized that nothing is preventing me to also work with security for Mageia, but under my own umbrella. So, I can work for Mandriva *and* Mageia at the same time if you put it like that. It's my company NUX AB that has a contract with Mandriva, I work for NUX AB. It's important to explain the situation right now. In fact, nothing is preventing me to also work for OpenMandriva, so that is also a possibility (hint).

NUX AB is a small company owned by me alone. There is currently only one employee, me. No sales organization, no nothing. I plan to keep a slim organization and in this case the sales function will have to be run by volonteers, via the Mageia community, word of mouth and so on. NUX AB will most likely never have a zillion of small bosses, sales, hr, and what have you guys that costs enormous amounts of money. The money earned will go to salaries to those who want to work resolving security vulnerabilities and critical bugs. OK?

By posting the idea now I hope to plant a seed, details are open for discussion. Presumptive paying SMB customers would probably want to know if MGA5 will be a possible alternative for the next 5 years or so at the time MGA5 is released, and Mageia can hopefully state that soon if all goes well.

I like transparency and basically the only two things that will be kept a secret will be the customer base (for obvious reasons) and the workflow of embargoed security issues.

Cheers.
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby filip » May 10th, '15, 12:08

oden wrote:I'm willing to persue the venture of providing LTS for Mageia 5.
...
Who is with me on this?

I really like the idea. I'm in. A localized website would definitely be needed. So I can help with that in the same areas as here (at least php and full i18n support for website) or even more (wiki, ...).
A daytime job for OSS is my dream job anyway :D. Even if that is one hour per month :). I'm working on that ;) BTW.
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby philippem » May 10th, '15, 15:01

Good Idea.
May be to help we could narrow the list of rpm to maintain, and implement sofware collections (http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fed ... index.html) and (https://www.softwarecollections.org/en/)
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby ChuangTzu » May 10th, '15, 18:33

Perhaps we could poll the community after Mageia 5 moves from RC to stable to determine the level of interest.
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby ozky » May 10th, '15, 18:39

No any polls these are useless how can you provide that our teams can hadle all that what community wants.
We have no resources to do it our qa team is already overloaded so if you get tons of more contributors otherwise i'm against it.
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby doktor5000 » May 10th, '15, 21:03

Seems you did not read Odens suggestion above. Please do so.
FWIW, I provided the same answer you gave already, but I have no problems if people want to pay a company for LTS or other support so that it's not a burden for the Mageia community.
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby georgi » May 10th, '15, 23:15

LTS for the last version with KDE 4 sounds awesome! :) The support for KDE 4.14 will be dropped in August this year but this DE is really stable and I don't care about Plasma right now. I tried 5.1 on Arch (February) - not even close to stable. Then 5.2 with Kubuntu (April) - better but still not production ready. I will be really happy to see distro with KDE 4 as LTS (except Debian which is already fine).
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby oden » May 11th, '15, 10:43

I'll be hanging out at #mageia-lts on freenode where those who want can join in and discuss further.
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby napcok » May 11th, '15, 14:22

+1
I think this is very good idea, remembering what happened with KDE3 -> KDE4 :D
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby davidwhodgins » May 11th, '15, 17:41

I'm against it, unless more (healthy) people start contributing.
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby stormi » May 11th, '15, 17:52

Well, in order not to put more burden on QA Team's shoulders, after "normal" EOL, all work of support on the LTS should be made by the afore-mentioned paid people provided they joined the Mageia Teams the standard way. That said, I would be against such a dichotomy if we had on one side unpaid contributors (including but not limited to QA Team leader MrsB and Security "Team" Luigi) and on the other side paid contributors who care only about the LTS. That would not be completely healthy. Money would have to flow towards the main project too in some form or another (hiring contributors for working on the main project for example, LTS or not).

However, nothing prevents a company to provide security updates in repositories OUTSIDE of the Mageia project. I'd prefer a joined effort, but that will need to define the responsibilities and rights in a very careful fashion. I trust the council to do that.

Now the first question is : are there potential customers ? ^^

Without them (or loads of new contributors), the discussion is vain.

If a company manages to get enough money to support a LTS release, I would advise to first do that outside the Mageia project (or inside, benefiting from the build system, but with packages put in specific media) for the first iteration, then see if it works and if we can make that an officiel LTS from the Mageia project.

I think it's too late for Mageia 5, unless said company hires people very quickly and puts infrastructure in place while discussing with the council.
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby oden » May 11th, '15, 18:23

Valid points. However, at this early stage there's no point discussing details I think. For me the question is if there's enough customers or not. I hope to find that out somehow but how?
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby ozky » May 12th, '15, 13:54

davidwhodgins wrote:I'm against it, unless more (healthy) people start contributing.

+1 you can't be more right :)
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby doktor5000 » May 12th, '15, 14:25

oden wrote:Valid points. However, at this early stage there's no point discussing details I think. For me the question is if there's enough customers or not. I hope to find that out somehow but how?

Well l could create a poll here in the forum for that, but that would probably only achieve small coverage, and probably not reach many potential customers.
I propose either a blogpost or a dedicated announcement or something like that, best ask atelier / marcom team on what their opinion is:
https://wiki.mageia.org/de/Marcom_Team and https://wiki.mageia.org/en/What_is_Atelier

Another option would be to directly start a crowdsourcing project, although that might require additional discussions with Mageia council.
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby Creto » May 14th, '15, 22:56

Hello everyone,

I will get me where I'm not called.

I do not know how much work would give Mageia team maintain a LTS 4 or 5 years of support, of course you should take more work ...

But I ask not give more time to orchestrate the new version?

I have no domain with the language used here and why not lengthen, but read the whole topic since the beginning and I hope the right time in my view to give my 5-cent stake in the debate.

Sorry my bad english from Translate Google

Best regards,
Creto

T+ = Bye
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby doktor5000 » May 15th, '15, 11:22

Well, this is two-fold. Officially Mageia 4 will only be supported until mid-August this year: https://www.mageia.org/support/
So people might want to migrate soon to Mageia 5. And for those that are interested in using Mageia 5 for servers
and/or for small & medium business, they are interested in longterm updates and longterm support.

This is probably why this has been brought up, and that is a perfectly valid thought, but we should perhaps really first try to get Mageia 5 out the door,
and then discuss any other issues or proposals, before Mageia 6 planning begins.
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby Creto » May 15th, '15, 15:18

It's good doktor5000!

:D

T+
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Re: LTS for Mageia 5

Postby varrin » May 18th, '15, 02:05

+1 to this. Potential customer here.
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