Mageia forum

Some think that it is most annoying that to click a link makes you leave the post - and the forum - redirecting you to the new place. Many think that clicking the link should open it in a new window/tab so that they can stay in their favorite place: here.
https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6834

So what do you think?

viking60 wrote:PS I recommend that a moderator moves this to the forum section (I could not create it there)

I'd like to do it but forum helpers only have permissions below Basic support subforum :/ So the only thing i can currently do is report the post and ask to move it, which effectively takes more time than to move the post *sigh*

And there's only one active moderator available currently ...

doktor5000 wrote:

viking60 wrote:PS I recommend that a moderator moves this to the forum section (I could not create it there)

I'd like to do it but forum helpers only have permissions below Basic support subforum :/ So the only thing i can currently do is report the post and ask to move it, which effectively takes more time than to move the post *sigh*

Oh, I am even able to edit other people's posts in this forum but I can't move threads. Obviously those who made founded this kind of permission chaos never had to moderate a forum! And although we have been pointing at such nonsense for almost 1.5 years now, nobody had the time (or the interest) to change that.

But complaining to things which are tagged as WONTFIX is futile (as a Borg would say). Let's get on with this poll - there were people who spoke up so loud and repeatedly that there must be some more than this single vote!

My vote was NO.

We already have the ability to open a link in a new tab (middle mouse click).
I have no wish to be forced to manually close old tabs when my intention was to move on.

Ken-Bergen wrote:... when my intention was to move on.

That is the main point of this discussion. You may understand that the intention of the forum is slightly different from the intention of the single user in this case. The intention of the forum is to be the "home" for the user who came to the forum. He may visit each and every external link, even go walking his dog, but always have the forum visible in his browser.

In your case, Ken, it may even be a more secure way to go to a new tab with a simple left click. Imagine you are working on a lengthy post about an important issue in the forum. You want to check something in Wikipedia and click on your wikipedia bookmark - forgetting to use the middle button! So, just for you it is more secure to have the "non-destroying" feature on the simple click.

So, in the end this is a matter of
- priorities of different sides
- individual learned workflows

Conclusion: Indeed a majority result (aka poll) is the only option in this case because both sides have equally valid reasons.

I would like to vote against the automatism of opening links in new windows or tabs, for reasons possibly already mentioned: (1) we already have two ways to do it with a mouse (middle click and ctrl click), (2) which would it be, new window or new tab?, and (3) to avoid automatisms even if marginally better.

Am I allowed to vote? Is the poll still open? When was is opened and when does it close? Where do I go to vote? What are the relevant links to this discussion?

Can all of this useful information be added to the top of this thread by default, to save us time?

wobo wrote:

Ken-Bergen wrote:... when my intention was to move on.

That is the main point of this discussion. You may understand that the intention of the forum is slightly different from the intention of the single user in this case. The intention of the forum is to be the "home" for the user who came to the forum. He may visit each and every external link, even go walking his dog, but always have the forum visible in his browser.

In your case, Ken, it may even be a more secure way to go to a new tab with a simple left click.
........
Conclusion: Indeed a majority result (aka poll) is the only option in this case because both sides have equally valid reasons.

As it stands now we have a choice, new tab or move on.
If this is implemented the choice is taken away which is contrary to the spirit of Linux as I understand it.

Of course if it can be implemented as a choice on a per user basis as in a "user control panel" then fine, else my No stands.

As an example when I come to the forum and there is more than one sub forum with new posts I'll middle click to open one in a new tab. If the sub forum only has one thread with new posts I'll left click and after reading/answering I only have one tab to close and I'm back to the main forum.

Ken-Bergen wrote:If this is implemented the choice is taken away which is contrary to the spirit of Linux as I understand it.

Näh that is pushing it a bit far - It might be contrary to the spirit of Ken but I am sure Linux will be fine with it.
It is just a way of making things easier and more intuitive without double somersaults and middle clicks.

I am with the majority (so far) on this one (feels good for a change ).

doktor5000 wrote:I'd like to do it but forum helpers only have permissions below Basic support subforum :/ So the only thing i can currently do is report the post and ask to move it, which effectively takes more time than to move the post *sigh*

I see it is moved now - that is good.
I think you should have all those rights immediately. How can the forum be based on contribution when even moderators are blocked? This needs to be exactly the opposite. Gamble on the fact that the forum members (and naturally moderators/forum helpers) will contribute in a positive way, and give them one right to many rather than one to little IMHO (That is the spirit of Linux if you ask me....)

viking60 wrote:

Ken-Bergen wrote:If this is implemented the choice is taken away which is contrary to the spirit of Linux as I understand it.

Näh that is pushing it a bit far - It might be contrary to the spirit of Ken but I am sure Linux will be fine with it.
It is just a way of making things easier and more intuitive without double somersaults and middle clicks.

I am with the majority (so far) on this one (feels good for a change ).

Let's see.
In your model I log in and see a new post in sub forum Basic support.
I click on it and now have two tabs/windows open.
The only new post is in the sub forum Video so I click on that and now have three tabs/windows open.
There's only one thread there with new posts so I click on that and now have four tabs/windows open only two of which I have any more interest in.

BTW: This majority of yours sounds like five wolfs and two sheep voting on what/who to have for dinner.

Hey, I get some radio buttons now!!! Ok, I quickly voted [NO] before they disappear again. Maybe my Firefox plugins blocked them last time I looked - who knows.

I think that most web sites should not be optimized for mobile platforms because that reduces functionality for the full desktop. It's like settling for the lowest common denominator. I realize mobile is all the rage now and see a lot of people on park benches squinting at their 7 inch screens for hours on end. But that's not right. The right way to solve this problem is through proper mobile protocols - not default simplified interfaces for everyone.

Also, mobile problems aside, substituting automatic features for regular features is often the same type of fallacy as adding new words to a language. Sure, the new word may solve a particular infrequent problem easily, but it takes away from the language as a whole. Thus I prefer "napkin" or even just "paper towel" to "Kleenex", and "scouring pad" instead of "Brillo pad", and "Linux" instead of "Ubuntu", and email instead of Twoo, Python instead of *Basic, Latin or Greek instead of English (haha), etc. It's better to have few very powerful tools you can master and use frequently (the Unix way) rather than myriad one off, ad hoc, super easy hacks that are super hard to find, remember, modify and understand.

I see it is moved now - that is good.

Sorry for my late action, but done with great pleasure, thanks doktor5000 for pointing.

I think it was a quick action - so don't be sorry

Ken-Bergen wrote:Let's see.
In your model I log in and see a new post in sub forum Basic support.
I click on it and now have two tabs/windows open.
The only new post is in the sub forum Video so I click on that and now have three tabs/windows open.
There's only one thread there with new posts so I click on that and now have four tabs/windows open only two of which I have any more interest in.

BTW: This majority of yours sounds like five wolfs and two sheep voting on what/who to have for dinner.

I think I will not comment on your great respect for democracy and majorities (however small).

In "my model" (Barry must take the well deserved credit for it) you do not "see a new post" in sub forum Basic support; You click a link that someone has put to somewhere else in this forum.
You can then click it and finish helping out and close that page - and be back to that forum where you are having that nice discussion with me....
Edit:
I just realized this: The internal phpbb navigation will not be affected by this - so no! Sub forums will NOT open in a new window!!!! I think that is what you are asking right?
This will only affect links placed in posts etc -in "my model." (If that is what you thought, then I understand your "grumpiness" I would be very against that too.)
Try to navigate and click some links here ;that is what I mean.

EDIT: One year later I this is a WONTFIX (DECIDED by one year time limit) despite the yes majority of 70 %
The one year limit is a token (anticipation) of the lack of capacity - and not an active decision.

GRRR I just lost a post where I was explaining the solution to all Mageia problems and checked out a link in preview.

Et Voila - the post was gone. (No I did not middle click the wheel)

So this is my revenge!

You arrogant minority who so willingly ignore the majority vote; have lost the mother of all answers over this.
Yes I know ; it is officially anticipated that there was no capacity - and nobody buys it!
Yes the Elephant in the room is that a few stubborn Frogs simply don't like it - so screw community majorities.

I am pi..ed off you say? - No this is me being nice!

The angry ones are not here...

And I get to move this thread up again so that everyone can see how the majority is treated for one more year.

oh ..and .. almost forgot:

Do feel free to feel bad.

But meanwhile, take good care of your heart.

FWIW, made this a stick thread, at least it will not be forgotten.

meh ...

So, maybe within another year we wuill have 2 more votes of the "great majority", showing better than zillions of words how important this question is, even if there were such a "great majority".

Interesting:
This is clearly a case of the silent majority - and dto loud minority. Since there rarely are more than 3 visitors at the same time here you cannot expect more than 15 votes and that would be those who care.

And since you don't like it - it can be ignored?
So far Barry and yours truly have been annoyed with this - and have made our voices heard. Others have unknowingly suggested it again since they could not find this.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=5092
(Yup Isadora I'll admit that it is not good for my heart)
And since the majority is not big enough; it can be ignored - good to know. I am sure it will do wonders for future contributors to the "Community distro".

Arrogant indeed.
(Don't get me wrong: Many good distros are not "democratic" ; that is fine. But if I understand it correctly that is exactly what Mageia is about?)

viking60 wrote:And since the majority is not big enough; it can be ignored - good to know. I am sure it will do wonders for future contributors to the "Community distro".

Well, opening links in new tabs in the forums - do you think that will be the primary reason that contributors look at when deciding whether to contribute to a project or not.
I mean c'mon, you still have to remember what it is when put into perspective that you're making this fuzz about. And that when there's an easy solution:
Change your browsers behaviour, or change your clicking behaviour. To be honest, actually I hate it when links open per default in new tab, and only a minority of websites does that. Also cannot see a silent majority here. 10 people voted in favor of it, 3 against - from 4000 forum users. Hardly what i'd call a majority.

Granted, there are many areas we can improve, there are many valid suggestions that have not been implemented even when the majority voted in favour of it, but this is not the best example (not even a good one) to wage a war for.

I'd even take the missing BBCodes and new smileys as better examples, where you're totally right. But not with this one.

Well it might not be a big thing in the entire picture - but this time it was annoying me and all the faithful Mageia followers can therefor not enjoy the pearls I was about to throw.

(And we do seem to agree on the BBCcode - which makes you an intelligent person No reason to use it against this though )

Even if we agree on the scale of this - and how ever minor an effort we are talking about; how about simply implementing it since that is what the majority wants?

There should not be a need for Barry and me to repeat our brilliant arguments - the time for that has come and gone. The next phase was to check what the community wants. The time for that has come and gone too.

Next there was the time of implementing it; and that time has come and gone, without any effort from anyone with possibility, to even simulate an action in accordance with the community wishes.

Do we need to have a council meeting to determine what constitutes a majority? 4000 people are members and all of them had the opportunity to vote (for two years) - 11 of them cared enough to vote for it (Barry and me + 9 others) and you, wobo, ken, and one other person voted against it.


I do respect your right to have your own opinion (your right to be wrong - that is) how about you and your three friends respecting the majority of those who care here?

Or are you so important that your votes count double (in which case you still have lost)?

In general I am not to happy with the line of arguing that other things are more pressing. That is a sure way to ensure that nothing is done! Someone will always find something that is more important.

We need some baby stepping here - one tiny step after another.

And this would be a tiny step - Just do it!

viking60 wrote:And this would be a tiny step - Just do it!

Well, if I could, I'd do it - even when the other silent majority, which didn't vote, would then probably be against this and would want to beat me.
This can't be done from the ACP, right?

Right.
And you should definitely have the rights to implement this. I do feel sorry for all the people that want to contribute - and are not allowed to.
My rambling is utterly unfair to them - on one level. But then again; step up and demand those rights - I'll be in your corner
(If you are in doubt about your ability to do it - but want to try - that should be reason enough to get the rights. Community members should be trusted and encouraged to more than joining some group with no defined rights.)
That is a structural bug.
Can you pinpoint persons who can do it? So that I can aim my cannons (besides Maat who is my usual victim - there must be more)?

I think what is needed is a "lot" of people with rights to change all this - and then all the meetings and decisions about if we need and want it can take place afterwords (You know; the bureaucracy part that always takes so much time - and always stops initiatives).
Do not be afraid of errors - I for one will be infinitely more tolerant (aka defend them) for people who try, and fall on their nose, than for people who do not dare to even start.

In the case that the changes are not wanted - they can be removed ( "oh we have got lots of new BBCcode - lets have a meeting to see if we want to keep them").

Kind of a pro-active style rather than the present re-active one. The history so far has shown that nothing has been implemented - forum wise.

Nothing is ever happening - and people get tired of all the good reasons for not even trying.