Forum support: your help is needed!

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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby marja » Jul 22nd, '12, 00:10

viking60 wrote:I have started the forum todo Wiki:
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Forum_todo_and_open_points
You can take it from there....
(Although I fail to see why putting it in a wiki after it is already proposed here is of any use...)


Well, the things on your list do all look like enhancement requests to me. To get an idea of the open enhancement requests we currently have in our Bugzilla, look here https://bugs.mageia.org/buglist.cgi?bug_severity=enhancement&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&query_format=advanced&order=bug_id&query_based_on=

The oldest one dates from 2011-02-16. Many old ones didn't get solved or closed as wontfix. Such is life, our contributors, including Maat, have jobs, families and other duties and also unexpected things (dead lines in a job, illnesses etc.) eating up time.

The best way to get more things done in Mageia, is pitch in where you can: join a team that fits your talents.

We could really use some help in Bug Squad, btw ;)
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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby viking60 » Jul 23rd, '12, 00:55

I think you are right - but I have pitched in where I can. By your statement it is fair to assume that Mageia is not able to run a decent forum due to capacity problems.
Fair enough.
It would make sense in a situation like that to concentrate on the essentials, so why not use the Mandriva forum - it has most of the functions that have been requested here?
I am sure they can have a Mageia section up and running in minutes.
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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby wobo » Jul 23rd, '12, 08:10

viking60 wrote:I think you are right - but I have pitched in where I can. By your statement it is fair to assume that Mageia is not able to run a decent forum due to capacity problems.
Don't you think that this is a totally exagerated statement just because a few minor points missing - most of which are mere enhancements and hardly needed for a working forum (f.ex.: spoiler)?

It would make sense in a situation like that to concentrate on the essentials, so why not use the Mandriva forum - it has most of the functions that have been requested here? I am sure they can have a Mageia section up and running in minutes.
Although this is a rather lame joke I could not avoid a short grin at this absurd idea.
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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby viking60 » Jul 23rd, '12, 17:01

wobo wrote:Don't you think that this is a totally exagerated statement just because a few minor points missing - most of which are mere enhancements and hardly needed for a working forum (f.ex.: spoiler)?

Yes if you isolate it, but after a bump 6 months ago which was one year after the requests were made (and not by me! I only supported some requests), a pattern emerges. A pattern of lacking respect (=no reaction) for the members that have made the suggestions to improve the forum experience.
This pattern is no good, and way more important than the spoiler in itself (a short "we will not do it because we do not have the capacity" would have made a world of difference).

Although this is a rather lame joke I could not avoid a short grin at this absurd idea.

Always glad to be able to entertain Image
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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby wobo » Jul 23rd, '12, 19:18

viking60 wrote:a short "we will not do it because we do not have the capacity" would have made a world of difference.

Well, then you must have missed dozens of posts by all the people involved: obgr_seneca, doktor5000, marja, isadora, wobo, maat, etc. All of them spoke the same language: we need more manpower to respond to all requests, where this was not only about forum requests but also package requests, website requests, documentation requests, update requests, etc. Not mentioning blog entries and mailing list calls for contributors.

Moreso, all discussions about forum enhancements had one thing in common: explanations of manpower shortages and requests for contributors. Also in all these discussions about the forum there was one demand sticking out: need of a php-savvy contributor to help maat to implement requested enhancements.

So, there were your not-so-short informations all the time - according to you they did not make a difference.

About your absurd "no respect" allegation: it's absurd. When everybody tells the users repeatedly about manpower shortage, where is the lack of respect? Everybody should understand that these enhancements are of a low priority while the making and maintaining and developing of the distribution as well as the fixing of software bugs have a high priority.

If you are working 12 hours 7days per week to pay the bills, cleaning up the garage does not have a high priority (except when your wife demands it!).
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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby viking60 » Jul 24th, '12, 22:02

Lots of words there. And I almost have tears in my eyes regarding the sad stories regarding lack of capacity.
Sanded by this I offered to fix all BBC-codes in one hour - If someone would let me. That is "not so easily done";
That is absurd.
Btw the offer does not stand anymore - others do recognize and accept help offers way faster....
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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby Ken-Bergen » Jul 24th, '12, 23:14

viking60 wrote:Btw the offer does not stand anymore - others do recognize and accept help offers way faster....
Lets see if I've got this right.
1 You have a vision of how the forum should be.
2 You refuse to join the Forum team to discus your vision.
3 You get your knickers in a knot when your offer to FIX? the forum to your liking without consolation is rejected.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I feel the correct decision has been made.
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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby viking60 » Jul 24th, '12, 23:26

No you have got it wrong.
It is abundantly clear that the discussion phase is where the most energy is put - and then if there is a clear conclusion - there is no energy left to implement it.
Do not get me wrong though if a majority of the community would want to remove any of the flexibility I offered to implement - THAT WOULD BE FINE!
The point being; nothing has been done in 1,5 years with suggestions from the community members - Some action could be expected IMHO
My offer was rejected - so there was really no reason for me to let it stand - in case someone should change his mind.

I do accept that you are fine with it though, even If I would like you to point me to the decisions you are referring to - I cannot find them. My criticism is also on the lack of decisions.
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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby Ken-Bergen » Jul 25th, '12, 00:05

viking60 wrote:I do accept that you are fine with it though, even If I would like you to point me to the decisions you are referring to - I cannot find them.
The only decision I referred to is not to let you have the freedom to change anything without joining the team.

Join the forum team and abide by the decisions agreed upon and your help would be welcomed.

Just saying I can do it if you give me the right to just doesn't work.
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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby doktor5000 » Jul 25th, '12, 00:31

viking60 wrote:No you have got it wrong.
It is abundantly clear that the discussion phase is where the most energy is put


Well, then - as you seem to be happy with it, continue doing endless discussions, badmouthing and complaining.
For some parts, you seem to be quite ignorant, and don't even realize what people try to tell you ...
Just do as you wish.
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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby viking60 » Jul 25th, '12, 00:46

@ken
Ok fair enough.
And I am not prepared to do so right now (I have been translating a sh...load as the founder/first person in Transiflex of my countries i18n team for a limited time before I had to leave. And I did translate the vital first Mageia webpage to Norwegian without even being a member of a group I just sent the mail to Romain and he got it fixed.).
The general implication that I am only demanding without being willing to act, might be a popular marketing campaign at the moment - but far from the truth (getting closer though).
So please concentrate on the issue - not me.

Your view seems to be then that no person that has not joined a group has the right to make suggestions regarding the forum (my criticism is limited to the forum). I think it should be enough just to be a member and user of the forum.

And the funny thing is: Even if everybody is making this a big recruiting thing and giving joining speeches - Most of this stuff is fixed in minutes if Maat (He is the only admin AFAICT) wants to. That is the correct proportion here.
That is what makes it incomprehensible to me, Even if it is understandable to you - We can just disagree on that.
doktor5000 wrote:For some parts, you seem to be quite ignorant, and don't even realize what people try to tell you ...
Just do as you wish.

Imagine the disaster if I was to join a group....... So stop nagging about it.
I did follow your links though and tried to clone the forum to my GIT, It looks like you for some reason are using SSH even that is not necessary anymore, so your end is hanging up when I try to clone
Code: Select all
git clone git://git.mageia.org/git/forum forum

Cloning into 'forum'...
fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly

Probably because of the lack of SSH key (is the link on the wiki correct?). Smart HTTP should be sufficient. So you are right I did not manage to pull the super-special Forum.
Works fine when cloning pacman or any other packages. And imagine; nothing about it in all that you tried to tell me....
Just to prove my "non ignorance" uppstream phpBB3 works just fine...
Code: Select all
[Pissed_of_viking@heidi-lap berserk_stuff]$ git clone https://github.com/phpbb/phpbb3.git phpbb3
Cloning into 'phpbb3'...
remote: Counting objects: 117149, done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (27473/27473), done.
remote: Total 117149 (delta 81063), reused 114219 (delta 78585)
Receiving objects: 100% (117149/117149), 25.59 MiB | 837 KiB/s, done.
Resolving deltas: 100% (81063/81063), done.

Have you been able to clone this forum from the links on the wiki page you referred me to?
I cannot find Magiea webcontent on GIT here either?
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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby marja » Jul 26th, '12, 09:33

viking60 wrote: And I did translate the vital first Mageia webpage to Norwegian without even being a member of a group I just sent the mail to Romain and he got it fixed.


Thanks for that and thanks for all the good intentions you have :)

However, in spite of you only trying to improve things here, the current discussions with you drain me and take away my concentration. I wish I'd see a way to have a more constructive discussion with you, but I don't :cry:

viking60 wrote: Imagine the disaster if I was to join a group

You are probably right about that.... joining a team if communication with that team doesn't work well, could very well lead to disaster. :(

viking60 wrote: Have you been able to clone this forum from the links on the wiki page you referred me to? I cannot find Magiea webcontent on GIT here either?


Do you mean the links on this page https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Web_Forums_hacking
I'll ask on the ml whether the links are correct
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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby marja » Jul 26th, '12, 11:20

marja wrote:Do you mean the links on this page https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Web_Forums_hacking
I'll ask on the ml whether the links are correct


Madeye confirmed it is impossible to clone the repository with the instructions there. Now waiting for someone who can tell what is wrong :)
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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby viking60 » Jul 26th, '12, 12:31

Thank you! Now I like your style and I will also admit that my help offering has been a bit provocative to wake the web people up from a 17 month long Nirvana. (So sorry - but the intentions are good).
This is stuff I would have put in a spoiler out of respect for your consentration
DO NOT READ THIS
[spoiler]
I have been a member here longer than any of the moderators so I advocated this forum while others where in doubt of the need....
We have a positive result since we have identified an error on the wiki page/Git links, commonly referred to when the complexity of this forum and my ignorance is to be explained.

What I would like to see accomplished for the members of the Mageia forum is the flexibility they themselves have suggested.
I would gladly join a group to work on the BBC-codes so that the part that I am criticizing can be fixed - and that is not possible! And I can not find the time to work with Mageia on a general basis, and maybe work after priorities I disagree with (It happens because people are different -no offence).
[/spoiler]


It would be a good idea to open for loose cannons (like me :D ) to make limited and targeted contributions though....

Now you can concentrate again:
Is there a correct link to the Git - or is the cloning not possible at the moment? (Has it ever been possible?)
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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby marja » Jul 26th, '12, 13:19

boklm has corrected https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Web_Forums_hacking#Code for anonymous cloning
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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby madeye » Jul 26th, '12, 13:20

And it works! (Just so you know :) )
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Re: Forum support: your help is needed!

Postby viking60 » Jul 26th, '12, 13:43

That was quick - Thanks Image
[spoiler]
Code: Select all
git clone git://git.mageia.org/forum mforum
Initialized empty Git repository in /home/thomas/berserk_stuff/mforum/.git/
remote: Counting objects: 82133, done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (17147/17147), done.
remote: Total 82133 (delta 55106), reused 81983 (delta 55004)
Receiving objects: 100% (82133/82133), 17.38 MiB | 1.55 MiB/s, done.
Resolving deltas: 100% (55106/55106), done.

[/spoiler]
Edit: Still version 3.0.8 I see
Image
Cutting and pasting Max's suggested BBC-Code in an get it to work was a matter of seconds. It is sad that a lack of a decision always is a decision against any suggestion. That even rules out trying it before rejecting it.
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