Do we need a new site/board admin?

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Do we need a new site admin?

Yes
5
56%
No
4
44%
 
Total votes : 9

Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby viking60 » Mar 6th, '12, 23:18

Groups are requested and people want to contribute - no action.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1989
Requests pending for 6 months. + +
Hardly to explain with being overworked - but I bet everyone would accept an explanation - any explanation. No response at all, is somewhat offending.
I think the Doctor can fix this too. :D Nothing personal, and I am sure the current Site Admin is a wonderful person, I am also pretty sure that he can be a wonderful person elsewhere, since there seems to be a lack of motivation to solve simple tasks here.
Then again I could be wrong of course...
Last edited by viking60 on Mar 7th, '12, 14:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do we need a new site admin?

Postby Max » Mar 7th, '12, 12:22

Please don't confuse site admin with board admin.
The site admin administrates to all of the Mageia sites: the forum, the wiki, the blog, the servers, the bugzilla and so on.
The board admin is only in charge of the forums.
I don't know how it is structured now, maybe they are the same person, maybe they aren't.
But you mean board admin, not site admin.
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Re: Do we need a new site admin?

Postby viking60 » Mar 7th, '12, 13:19

OK I am not familiar with that distinction.
I am using the term like phpbb does.Pphpbb is the forum software here and there the function I am talking about is referred to as Site Admin.
But yes; this is limited to this forum (or board) and not wikis and blogs.
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Re: Do we need a new site admin?

Postby wobo » Mar 7th, '12, 13:48

I guess it's the board admin in this thread. The wrong usage of "site admin" comes from the Team Page in the forum where the person who set up the forum is listed as "Site Admin".

I think there is a bit more information needed to clarify what we really need. I try to give this information. The team page shows that there are 5 names in the Admin section. But looking more you see the real situation:

ashledombos -> resigned long ago because of time constraints, is still listed in case he may be more available in future
forumadmin -> is not a person, it is the default name for the guy who installed the forum software and activated it. -
maat -> is the only real forum admin
misc -> is in the sysadmin team and needed for any software changes
rda -> is in the web team and needed if something must be changed in the overall web appearance (example: integration of the Mageia nav bar on the forum pages)

That leaves maât as only "admin on location". Now, from other forums we all know very active admins who usually respond quite promptly to any questions / requests / issues. Obviously this is not the case here, which has been the cause for several discussions - once it was brought to the attention of the council, where maât denied the necessity of an additional admin. Later he claimed that he needs help by a php coder - which again is not the same as an admin.

There is a difference between a normal forum and this one here: this implementation of phpBB3 is not a standalone implementation where the admin can easily customize the software, add smilies and such. All these changes involve other people and the Mageia git repository. The Mageia forum implementation has been done like this to make maintenance / updates easier (on a side notice: I wonder why this forum still runs on an outdated version then).

So, in the light of these informations, what do we actually need? I do not think we need one more forum admin. What we need is a forum admin who is
- responsive (means: communicative)
- available (means having the time to do such simple things as the smilie request, even if it involves more than just the 10 minutes it would take in a standalone forum)

Hopefully I have cleared up some more, doing so I tried to be as objective as I could :)
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Re: Do we need a new site admin?

Postby viking60 » Mar 7th, '12, 14:19

The discussion Site Admin or board admin is somewhat of a side kick.
"Site admin" is the default Rank of the Administrators usergroup in phpbb aka this forum or board. But I will edit and add "board".
The only forum admin is Maat according to the above and that is the function meant here.

I think Wobo did Maats job above by explaining the (smiley ++) problem. I guess no one can even begin to explain why the forum is not upgraded if it is true that this is much easier with the current installation.
I guess that makes the poll as relevant as ever....
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Re: Do we need a new site admin?

Postby wobo » Mar 7th, '12, 15:45

viking60 wrote:I think Wobo did Maats job above by explaining the (smiley ++) problem.

This has been explained several times already, including in one of those "smiley thread".

In my personal very humble opinion the whole issue is caused by the system. The technical forces of Mageia insisted on a forum software implementation which would suit a site with a dozen (or more) different forum installations. For just 2 it is as overkill and as slow in response as a 18wheeler Mack compared to a japanese 2 seat convertible (Mazda :) ). That was one of the reasons I stepped back from admin position in the German forum (not being able to do what an admin should do).

Of course it would help all and would do the forum not bad if there was an admin with a bit more visibility and responsiveness. But who said an admin should have at least basic communication skills - obviously that was not part of the job description.
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby ennael » Mar 7th, '12, 17:25

Hi guys

A quick question. Would you have a proposal for somebody to join forum admins? If so please let me know so that we can add this in decision we could take in council meeting.

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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby wobo » Mar 7th, '12, 17:55

ennael wrote:A quick question. Would you have a proposal for somebody to join forum admins?

As I already explained: a new admin without having the time and power to actually respond to existing (and possible future) requests does not solve the problem. Of course he may be more responsive in explaining why he can not do what is requested. :)
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby viking60 » Mar 8th, '12, 00:52

Ok lemme see if I got this right:
Wobo you think this is a complicated system to admin. Which would mean that it is harder to upgrade ( not easier, as intended).
There is this superduper installation system meant for a lot of boards - and there are only two.

Kind of stage diving with only two spectators! That hurts.

In that case it may make sense that Maat wants a php guru and it probably explains why nothing has happened. So I guess I should take some of my Site Admin criticism back And start the system criticism.
Except for one thing: If you know there is no use to make suggestions then you should tell the members that they should not make them. Because it will not be possible to do anything about them anyway - or that it will take a year.
The communication is lousy and I have this feeling that I have seen it before somewhere.Image
I am not sure that Maat is to blame anymore but I am sure of this:

Nothing happens!

The job description should be present before a new admin is engaged. He will need to know:
What are the specific differences between administrating this board in comparison to a standard phpbb installation?
Is PHP coding nice or need (hacking or programming)?
And yes - communication! If BBC codes are impossible to implement , then don't make me come with (wasted) suggestions.

It also is a possibility to state that the board Status Quo is as good as it gets. There are no ambitions to upgrade or improve it. It is a place where you can post and that is all we need - finito,
That is the current decision, whether it is an active one or not.
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby wobo » Mar 8th, '12, 07:28

viking60 wrote:Wobo you think this is a complicated system to admin. Which would mean that it is harder to upgrade ( not easier, as intended).

Not exactly. From a technical point of view it is easier to maintain (our techie people say so). It is harder to change something or upgrade from a systematic point of view (the workflow is not as easy as with a standalone installation), says somebody who has been maintaining a phpbb3 board for a couple of years.
But that is only one part of the issue. The other part is that the only "real" forum admin is not available most of the time.

As I fear that there is absolutely no chance to change the system, I see a 2-point-solution:
1. A php-savvy person with time on his/her disposal as tech admin, his task is to do what seems to be too much for maât (take action on requests, do update). Should be either communicative in the forum himself or in contact with the "visible admin", as described in point #2
2. An admin who is available and visible in the forum to do tasks which can not be handled by Global Moderators. Needed attributes: time, communication skills, his attitude should be acceptable to the crowd.
Of course both positions could be filled by one person, if available.

Or we just pretend that everything is nice and well.
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby doktor5000 » Mar 8th, '12, 14:59

What may be useful to get a glimpse of the deployment implementation of the forums (well, it's handled like most other mageia web services, so nothing fancy related to the other installations, but still a lot more complicated than a usual forum installation) https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Web_Forums_hacking
As fas as i've understood it, the forum configuration/deployment is handled via puppet manifests
and those are stored in Mageia GIT.

On a related note, when i look at https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Web_Forums_concerned i get really sad :cry:
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby rda » Mar 9th, '12, 15:54

To summarize. We do need people to step in and help us maintain and grow our tools to support the Mageia community, that's no secret.

We all agree that there's room for someone to step in, on three levels:
- forum configuration/deployment (needs mix of PHP, Puppet skills and knowledge of phpbb and its modules, potentially some packaging)
- forum hacking (needs mix of PHP and phpbb skills)
- forum admin (needs phpbb knowledge)

All three skills groups can be learnt on the go. It may be one, or three persons. It needs someone ready to discuss and ponder with sysadmin team how to manage the forum config and deployment (we may find a better way than today, who knows).

Shall we advertise this on the blog? on a specific page on the wiki listing "wanted" positions to fill?
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby wobo » Mar 9th, '12, 18:46

rda wrote:To summarize. We do need people to step in and help us maintain and grow our tools to support the Mageia community, that's no secret.
We all agree that there's room for someone to step in, on three levels:
- forum configuration/deployment (needs mix of PHP, Puppet skills and knowledge of phpbb and its modules, potentially some packaging)
- forum hacking (needs mix of PHP and phpbb skills)
- forum admin (needs phpbb knowledge)

You forgot the 4th level, the one most asked for here: availability and visibility on the forum, the willingness to discuss issues with the users on equal terms, the readiness to respond to user requests as a servant of the community (not with the attitude of the owner of the forum, to say it in clear words).
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby rda » Mar 9th, '12, 18:55

wobo wrote:You forgot the 4th level, the one most asked for here

Right, sorry. Implied but indeed, that's something expected at all three levels as well. /o\
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby ennael » Mar 19th, '12, 15:53

As a note, this topic will be discussed tonight during council meeting. And we will find a solution, probably implying sysadmin team to be more active on this. We have to make a choice now as nothing changed for a long time. You can attend part of the meeting dedicated to this topic.
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby boklm » Mar 19th, '12, 20:39

ennael wrote:As a note, this topic will be discussed tonight during council meeting. And we will find a solution, probably implying sysadmin team to be more active on this. We have to make a choice now as nothing changed for a long time. You can attend part of the meeting dedicated to this topic.

I will probably not be able to attend meeting tonight (or late). I think sysadmin team can be more active on forum admin, and work on technical part (setup/configuration of the forums, phpbb upgrades, etc ...). However sysadmin team members may not always have a lot of time to read forums and answer to all user requests, so it can be useful to also have someone else as "forum coordinator" to help sysadmin team in forum admin. Someone who often participate in the forums and will :
- answer to user requests and update forum settings if needed
- summarize requests for sysadmin team, discuss changes needed with sysadmin team
- coordinate moderators team and help define forum rules
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby wobo » Mar 19th, '12, 21:55

boklm wrote:Someone who often participate in the forums and will :
- answer to user requests and update forum settings if needed
- summarize requests for sysadmin team, discuss changes needed with sysadmin team
- coordinate moderators team and help define forum rules

That's what I wrote. Happy to read that someone understands what is really needed.
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby ennael » Mar 19th, '12, 23:36

wobo wrote:That's what I wrote. Happy to read that someone understands what is really needed.


I did understand (even if I'm a girl)! Oliver will speak with some people here to create a real forum teams with people having administration rights and organizing things in a transparent way. Sysadmin will help on server side when needed
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby wobo » Mar 20th, '12, 02:52

When something takes almost a whole year to happen you may understand that some people did not assume that the council (or a part of it) understood the importance of the issue - at least for a long time. It has been discussed often enough in the forum and it was brought to the council long time ago. Not to mention mails with related contents.

Well, eventually something happens to change that situation. Happy to hear that.
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby ennael » Mar 20th, '12, 09:38

Well it's always hard to see such situation. What can we say? I prefer focus of things to come. But now it's your turn, hoping we will have volunteers to build this team
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby wobo » Mar 20th, '12, 10:48

ennael wrote:Well it's always hard to see such situation.

I also prefer to look forward, that's ok. But looking forward without looking back at mistakes of the past is meaningless, acknowledging those mistakes is needed to learn from them and not repeat them in future. Just saying "it is hard to see such situation" is neither helpful to avoid the same mistake in the future nor is it true in this case. It was mentioned several times in the forum, even in the correct section. But even if nobody of the council ever read the forum (I know that this was not the case), the matter has been brought to the council and was also reported to you and the council by mail (at least 3 from me, including my statement lately why I resigned from admin position in the German forum). The situation was described very clearly.

Yes, the turn is on the people to volunteer (at least for the php-savvy guy and the "visible forum admin"). But the obligation to react to user's requests stays with the council.
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby viking60 » Mar 20th, '12, 15:40

I would like to see an "action man"
The kind that implements the stuff first, and later asks if it is OK like that. Coordinating and administrating and having (loots of) meetings is....really not speeding things up (especially when there are more coordinators than participants).

This may offend the big egos - who feel that they always must be asked and give their OK to everything. But it will get things done.
Sure there might be mistakes, and that is fine: No mistakes=no action and that is not fine.

When making an omelette it is OK to brake some eggs. Having more people administrating the board than the average no. of visitors per day is - again - like stage-diving with only two spectators.
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby doktor5000 » Mar 20th, '12, 23:41

This is some kind of irony, no? I've volunteered as Moderator, and was declined, not even the reasoning for that was published.
I've tried to work together with others like wobo to improve problems of the forum on forums-discuss ml, and listed issues as asked
by maat. Nothing happened during the last 8 months. There's also a missing security update for the forum software.

In between i've gotten kinda fed up with that problem complex, like Don Quichotte against the windmills.
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby Ken-Bergen » Mar 20th, '12, 23:56

doktor5000 wrote:This is some kind of irony, no? I've volunteered as Moderator, and was declined, not even the reasoning for that was published.
That's another can of worms.
At first glance it would seem we have enough moderators but digging deeper it looks like we only have one active moderator isadora.
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Re: Do we need a new site/board admin?

Postby doktor5000 » Mar 20th, '12, 23:59

Ken-Bergen wrote:At first glance it would seem we have enough moderators but digging deeper it looks like we only have one active moderator isadora.

Well, he is active, but due to health reasons not much time for the forums.
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