Nepomuk activation

[pmithrandir]

Hi,

Yesterday, nepomuk was activated in the cauldron release.

On my computer, it's using a lot of resources to index all the files, and a lot of time too.
I have a decent laptop, but I can't watch common divx at the same time, the video is not fluid, even if I desactivate desktop effect.

Is it normal ?
If yes, we should be aware that it's going to give a bad image of mageia.

BTW, afetr 2 years with the "nepomuk" name floating around me, I still don't understand the meaning of it and how it's necessary to KDE.
What do we gain with it ?
I think it allow us to do some research in the file content, but is it all it does ?

Thanks,
Pierre

[alf]

Maybe this site will give you some explanation for nepomuk/strigi

[pmithrandir]

Basically, it's a research agent when you don't order your file correctly ?

Is that a problem to disable it ?

[doktor5000]

Basically, Nepomuk doesn't index anything. The indexing is done by Strigi. And it will only take a long time and many ressources
when run initially, and also depends which directories you have specified for that. By default it will only index the /home directory of the current user.

Nepomuk currently enables you to annotate (tag) files, to add relations between files, context information and similar stuff.
It will enable you to filter between files, easier searching of files and seaching in the content of those files.
Imagine searching through all your documents, mails, pictures and so on and to search in the content at once.

And no, there's no problem in disabling it, if you don't want/use that functionality. According to our KDE maintainer,
you can also completely remove the nepomuk package if you plan on not using it.

[pmithrandir]

Thanks

I will maybe remove it soon... for the moment it's just disabled as I don't really think I will annotate anything one day.

[danielpf]

After years of being a hog Nepomuk and its suite has gained by now a solid and
consistent bad reputation.

In Alpha3 I could witness on two computers the same horrendous behavior as in the past
years in various distros and on various computers. Computers freeze or slow down
considerably.

Since several years the first things knowledgeable KDE users do after install is to
switch off Nepomuk. Novice users just drop KDE for another WM, or entirely Linux.

Therefore I urge Mageia not to switch it on by default until Nepomuk has been seriously
tested and verified to behave in a civilized manner. At the rate of improvement seen, it could
take still several years. Obviously something goes completely wrong between the Nepomuk
developers and the distro integrators for them not to take into account countless and consistent
user complaints about Nepomuk being a hog. Are the over 10M€ injected in the project
influencing such decisions?

[mikala]

Nepomuk is a *require* for kmail for now, so it's going to be enable by default (since it's just ugly to have *yellow* banner in kmail complaining about missing functionnality in kmail.
It's also going to be used soon my telepathy-kde.
However since i know some users does not like it i split all nepomuk related files in his own package named « nepomuk » so the end user can simply *removed* this package to get ride of nepomuk.
Of course some apps relaying on nepomuk won't work or will be removed too (such as kmail).

In summary :
- i won't disable nepomuk by default now & stick to upstream default configuration (aka enable by default)
- end users can either disable it or even better removed it so they can get ride of it since they hate it :p

Regards,

[pmithrandir]

Nepomuk is a *require* for kmail for now, so it's going to be enable by default (since it's just ugly to have *yellow* banner in kmail complaining about missing functionnality in kmail.
It's also going to be used soon my telepathy-kde.
However since i know some users does not like it i split all nepomuk related files in his own package named « nepomuk » so the end user can simply *removed* this package to get ride of nepomuk.
Of course some apps relaying on nepomuk won't work or will be removed too (such as kmail).

In summary :
- i won't disable nepomuk by default now & stick to upstream default configuration (aka enable by default)
- end users can either disable it or even better removed it so they can get ride of it since they hate it :p

Regards,

Regarding what you say, I see no reason that can justify your decision.

Kmail is nothing. Nobody know it and nobody need it to be simple.(same as konqueror, koffice, ... they are little games for geek)
There is robust alternative if it doesn't works(thunderbird is one of them), and for personal use, almost all user I know never use anymore software for email. (gmail, hotmail, yahoo are better, and perfectly safe for your datas. Only in company you can find some people who use that, and they have the staff to set up or activate something.

telepathy is not even stable now, or usable. A simple function as : remember my password doesn't works.

So, if there is really tons of user complain over nepomuk, just disable it by default, don't install kmail by default but an alternative, and put nepomuk as a requirement for people who want this software.
And, it's always better to wait for something new to be stable, than to force all user to be the beta tester. Mandriva finally learn that after years of shitty distro, it would be a shame for mageia to reproduce the same pattern.

[mikala]

Regarding what you say, I see no reason that can justify your decision.
Kmail is nothing. Nobody know it and nobody need it to be simple.(same as konqueror, koffice, ... they are little games for geek)
There is robust alternative if it doesn't works(thunderbird is one of them), and for personal use, almost all user I know never use anymore software for email. (gmail, hotmail, yahoo are better, and perfectly safe for your datas. Only in company you can find some people who use that, and they have the staff to set up or activate something.

Having the default KDE's MUA complainging with a *nice* et yellow banner about broken functionnality is not a valid reason ?
If you're not using kmail you can always drop it/remove it & remove nepomuk in the same way

telepathy is not even stable now, or usable. A simple function as : remember my password doesn't works.

Strange because since 0.2 kwallet is able to handle password & it work perfectly here

So, if there is really tons of user complain over nepomuk, just disable it by default, don't install kmail by default but an alternative, and put nepomuk as a requirement for people who want this software.

That's what is already done in the task-kde-minimal : kmail is not required at all..

And, it's always better to wait for something new to be stable, than to force all user to be the beta tester. Mandriva finally learn that after years of shitty distro, it would be a shame for mageia to reproduce the same pattern.

Nepomuk is present since 4.2 or even older.
But i'll remember that « i should not provide something new & alternatives for thoses & i decrease my time to work on mageia since no one don't ever read changelogs.

[doktor5000]

Regarding what you say, I see no reason that can justify your decision.

Maybe it's because mikala is our KDE maintainer and closely follows upstream KDE development, so he probably knows best?
Otherwise, if you're unhappy with either Nepomuk or Kmail or Telepathy, you need to discuss this with upstream developers, not with us.
Or you can just disable/remove it.

[pmithrandir]

The idea is not to be unhappy, or something like that.

Disabling, uninstalling, configuring.
That's geek and computer user words.

If you want people to like mageia even more, you should provide them a system with by default :
- no performance issue (that was my main problem with nepomuk with my 36 go home directory)
- no system with too much complaints(even more when kde works fine without it for years) because nepomuk complaint are going to be mageia complaints. And if you explain to all user : please disable nepomuk, they are going to think : but why did they put it in the first place by default.
- little nice plasmoid by default(as windows do) mostly to teach people how to use them, and to show them that plasmoid exist.(It take me few month before seeing a desktop contest, and to discover that plasmoids were in KDE 4).

The question is not to be the best in technology but to think about humans and user needs.

My team leader is definitely shit in object programming if you compare his level to mine. I'm not even sure he know what it is. But, he is way better to understand people and there needs, and that the reason I listen to him. Because he is the perfect newbie.

I have mageia as my main system, and had mandriva for years.
But when my girlfriend talk about it, she only say : "it's a system where you have to set up something every weeks. I don't want to deal with that kind of stuff".

And for that kind of question I totally trust her judgment.

[doktor5000]

I have mageia as my main system, and had mandriva for years.
But when my girlfriend talk about it, she only say : "it's a system where you have to set up something every weeks. I don't want to deal with that kind of stuff".

Would you mind to share some examples for that "something" you seem to need to setup every week?
At least for me (and most others) after i install Mageia, i do the initial setup once and then i'm done with it for the rest of the product lifetime.

[pmithrandir]

Most of the time, it was issues with the external monitor and KDE.
but, also about the fact that I have to put my computer in sleep mode to enable the power managment and the fan speed modulation(there is an issue about it)
Some time it's the plasmoid system that just crash, I loose some of them, or they goes outside the screen(monitor problem again...)
Some other time, open office crash when you want to open a document, so you have to restart it until it works.
The mageia network plasmoid was totally unable to connect half of the time to my wifi, but I resolved the issue by using now network manager.


And I'm sure I forget a lot of them.
At the end, she saw me taking hour on my computer...

Honnestly, I keep using mageia because it helps me to stay up to date on linux "strange" stuff, and because I like to use my brain for problem solving.

[doktor5000]

Well, i like to use Mageia because it works well and i got no problems with it (and because i contribute to it)

[wobo]

Same here: my productive system is Mandriva 1 - installed a couple of days after release. I never tampered with the system, it has been working stable since day #1. It's a pretty regular machine (i7, 8Gb RAM, Nvidia GT230). This is where I do all my work on, so I do
- not use 3rd party repos nor 3rd party software (except flashplayer plugin and Acrobat reader)
- not use backports nor testing repos
- not use the machine for testing new stuff
All these *may be* hazardous to your system.
I did not have anything to set up every other week, the time spent with this machine is almost 100% work or entertainment (except the regular updates when there are any).

I have another machine for tests and cauldron, this is where I keep fiddling with settings, testing backports, 3rd party software, etc.

If I would not already contribute to Mageia, after these experiences I would start to.

[doktor5000]

- not use 3rd party repos nor 3rd party software (except flashplayer plugin and Acrobat reader)
- not use backports nor testing repos
- not use the machine for testing new stuff
All these *may be* hazardous to your system.

To be fair, and for reference, on my only machine i:

- do use nonfree and tainted repos, and some self-built packages, or custom backports of programs i've done for myself
- do use testing to help QA, and some backports (at a time where there were some packages available in backports, now there aren't any packages in backports)
- as it's my only machine and some stuff can't be tested in a VM, i also use it for testing new stuff
Yes, these things may be hazardous but i've not broken anything yet.

[isadora]

Same here: my productive system is Mandriva 1

Yeah right, you must be from before Catweazle..............

[wobo]

Arghhh! This is the 3rd time within a few days that I've done that!
To my excuse: because of the current situation I've been switching constantly between several Mandriva sites including several news sites about Mandriva and this forum, so after spending some time there I come back and still think "Mandriva".

Instead of editing my previous post I declare: my productive system is Mageia 1.